Contract Tree Climbers Association (CTCA)...

Levi.CO said:
I like what you're saying. The penalty thing was a joke... I forget sarcasm does not come through in writing. I have never had medical insurance either, just workers comp as an employee.
What are the advantages to this for you personally after being "on your own" for so long? If you don't mind me asking.
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ps put your real picture up there cause I'm having a hard time taking you serious. I'm serious...
 
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rawtree said:
Are you saying that you have worker's comp? If so, are you "included" on the policy or is it a "blind" policy?
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No just General liability $1mil/$2mil ag
I don't know if it's the same everywhere but here subcontractors do not need workers comp and the company your working for wouldn't need to cover it either, or so I am told. I do at least have med insurance should something ever happen knock on wood
 
Ben Dats said:
Love the idea as someone who is doing contract climbing. Plz keep updated on details. It would also be nice for tree companies to have someone to go to and find good contract climber, like a Angie's list for tree climbers, ratings, reviews, comments, ect.
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Ben, great first post! Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum!

Tim
 
Comp is not cheap and don't expect a group discount to be anything significant and the rates we charge will not be cheap. Expect the "buy-in" to this co-op to be up to 3 or 4 or 5 grand just to get a year's comp policy. I don't know how "Obama" care is with work injuries but it used to be that the best med ins for a climber for the cost was a personal comp policy. I mean this will be our 2nd greatest expense. 300, 400 dollars a month second to travel expenses if all of this was to gel together. The rates we charge would be a multiplier of the company we'er working for's "return per manhour" rate. Say we were in the philly area and the going rate for a Bartlett crew is $105.00 per manhour then we would be charging them 105 times say a factor of 1.20 which is $126.00 per hour. If it's fair for the company to charge their residential customers 105$ per hour for each yo-yo on a 3 man crew then the quality of the person we put into the field will justify this rate. That's why our members must be top climbers, tippy top! They will not make money off of us!!! We will make money for them!!!! By keeping a crew running when a man'n off injured. By allowing them to put an additional crew out on the street to keep work they might lose. By sharing our knowledge with their crew members so they work safer and more efficiently when we're gone...
 
rawtree said:
Comp is not cheap and don't expect a group discount to be anything significant and the rates we charge will not be cheap. Expect the "buy-in" to this co-op to be up to 3 or 4 or 5 grand just to get a year's comp policy. I don't know how "Obama" care is with work injuries but it used to be that the best med ins for a climber for the cost was a personal comp policy. I mean this will be our 2nd greatest expense. 300, 400 dollars a month second to travel expenses if all of this was to gel together. The rates we charge would be a multiplier of the company we'er working for's "return per manhour" rate. Say we were in the philly area and the going rate for a Bartlett crew is $105.00 per manhour then we would be charging them 105 times say a factor of 1.20 which is $126.00 per hour. If it's fair for the company to charge their residential customers 105$ per hour for each yo-yo on a 3 man crew then the quality of the person we put into the field will justify this rate. That's why our members must be top climbers, tippy top! They will not make money off of us!!! We will make money for them!!!! By keeping a crew running when a man'n off injured. By allowing them to put an additional crew out on the street to keep work they might lose. By sharing our knowledge with their crew members so they work safer and more efficiently when we're gone...
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And, that 1.20 multiplying factor was just pulled out of thin air. That has to include travel and living expenses and at some time a percentage towards the operation of the c0-op...
 
rawtree said:
And, that 1.20 multiplying factor was just pulled out of thin air. That has to include travel and living expenses and at some time a percentage towards the operation of the c0-op...
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I know there is this quality of climber out there that justifies this rate. Look at what they're paying to put a climber through a couple of mods of ArborMaster. We will be trainers as well as hard and motivated workers...
 
JontreeHI said:
Hi Tim, my reason for saying this is due to the responses from a thread I started last summer about the need/desire/possibility of a tree climber'a union.
I found a few posters to be shut down to the idea seemingly because of the word primarily. I don't have time now to find the thread, but it's probably a decent read if you're handy with the search function
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Thanks for the response, JontreeHI. I understand you now. An earlier post in this thread gets at that issue. It's important to try to engage with all of the folks that get turned off just by using the word. They have to have some negative impressions of unions. Even better would be people who've actually had a negative experience in dealing with a union somehow, in order to be able to possibly avoid pitfalls that are preventable.

On the other hand, there are a lot of businesses that absolutely hate the thought of having to sit down at a bargaining table with an entity that has just as much power as they do. They prefer the arrangement in which a huge company brings each little guy all by himself into the room, and says "Here's the deal, take it or leave it. There's another hundred guys outside that'll take it." That is how big wally acts.

So, I don't know what the right answer is. The "Angies List" type of arrangement might leave each guy negotiating his own wage each and every time, which might be a real pain. It would be nice if you could go to an online bulletin board type of arrangement to see what the current offering is for each location. This would help to prevent guys from bankrupting themselves trying to travel somewhere to find work, only to have them offer a wage that ends up costing you money for having made the trip, instead of coming out ahead at the end.

If you do not wish to set up a union type of organization, maybe you could just make it possible for guys to negotiate labor rates via e-mail with the companies that want their services. But what protection does a guy have if he travels a long way, gets there, and they try to change the terms on him now that they know he's in the hole for his expenses? It is the reason that contracts exist.

Maybe I just answered my own question. You guys are called "Contract Climbers" after all.

Tim
 
Stihlmadd said:
create a guild as in the traditional term - The guild of Cutters and Climbers
a guild handled the recruitment and placement of all from the apprentices through the journeyman to the master craftsman.
before a union there was guilds which cared about its members, had rules of conduct for the members to follow on how work was to be done and for how much.
sounds better than a union as we are tradespeople and masters of our craft, the guild system accommodated traveling for work from area to area to increase the knowledge base for the benefit of all its members.
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What you've described here sounds exactly like a union to me. Plumbers, pipefitters, electrical workers and carpenters are just a few of the "skilled craftsmen" trades in existence today, and their unions operate in just the way that you describe.

Tim
 
My father is an old timer climber,towards the end of his climbing days he was always goin on about how if we could just get unionized in our industry,obviously its all about the details and a co-op is much more appealing to some,i think these are good notions.
 
rawtree said:
ps I hope that pic on your profile isn't you. That'll be a little hard to sell...
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I don't know, I kind of like that avatar. The classic term for bringing in someone who's really talented, much better than what's available locally, is "hiring a gunslinger". Or "hired gun". It implies someone who is the best at what they do.

Tim
 
I just randomly remembered this fella accusing my granpa of not being certified,that his number was fake cause it was too low!! Lmao,he was one of the first few hundred to be certified on the western chapter....
 
rawtree,
joking of course. a little jealous of the dream team, but everyone has to be worth the price or it would ruin the brand. hard for me to say if i would be considered, i think a video resume would be a good way to vet out potential members. i am truly interested in this idea as i have thought about it myself for sometime. hopefully i can put together a vid eventually and we'll see if i got the skills to pay the bills.
 
Flex Abednego said:
rawtree,
joking of course. a little jealous of the dream team, but everyone has to be worth the price or it would ruin the brand. hard for me to say if i would be considered, i think a video resume would be a good way to vet out potential members. i am truly interested in this idea as i have thought about it myself for sometime. hopefully i can put together a vid eventually and we'll see if i got the skills to pay the bills.
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Post a pic of your climbing gear and how you store. Just go out and take the pic and don't organize anything first. Be honest...
 
Flex Abednego said:
rawtree,
joking of course. a little jealous of the dream team, but everyone has to be worth the price or it would ruin the brand. hard for me to say if i would be considered, i think a video resume would be a good way to vet out potential members. i am truly interested in this idea as i have thought about it myself for sometime. hopefully i can put together a vid eventually and we'll see if i got the skills to pay the bills.
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That you even have doubt would be a red flag to me...
 
My impression is that flex is a sledge hammer that is very conservative in making statements about his capabilities, and that people who underestimate him are making a big mistake.

Tim
 
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i didnt just take that pic. it was from a couple months ago. it is stored this way in my garage on one of those heavy duty costco racks
 
Flex Abednego said:
i didnt just take that pic. it was from a couple months ago. it is stored this way in my garage on one of those heavy duty costco racks
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Nice! You passed the first test. In the beginning of a venture, like you all are helping me brainstorm, everyone needs to be considered. To me, the most important attribute is confidence in yourself and your abilities. It's not to command respect from your peers, it's to deserve it. If and when it would be decided to advertise our services we would want to have a pool of people scattered around the country in strategic locations. Until you and I have worked side by side I could not make a stand for your abilities; you'd have to sell yourself.
 
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