Chippers and Tier 4 engines

G

GrahamS

Location
Lake in the Hills IL
So we have a 2001 morbark 2400 that we will be replacing sometime soon, hopefully in the next year. I have a pretty good grasp on the tier 4 stuff in truck applications as we have been running them for a few years. So does anyone have any thoughts or comments on running the new engines in chippers. I know with the trucks we have had trouble with dpf filters, and excessive Idle time, which I could see being a pain with the chipper.
 
Tier 4 final is expensive, the higher the HP, the worse it gets. Most manufacturers are dropping the hp offerings from what I've seen. What used to be 100hp is 74.5 (gets it in the 25--75hp emissions bracket). The 770 was 173hp will now be 130hp to keep the price somewhere near reasonable. Going from 250hp T4i to 375hp T4F adds $46700 to the list price!

I'm a Terex/Woodsman dealer, in the interest of full disclosure. I do have a friend/customer in your neck of the woods (Crystal Lake), Fred Roewer/FJR Tree Inc. Know him?
 
Wicked pita...these newer engines also require electronic/computer diagnostics to work on them. I bet they don't put a computer screen on them and tell you exactly what's wrong.

We have a few fully mechanical Wisconsin v465, cummins 4bt,6bt...easy peasy to trouble shoot. "Did you check the fuel filter?"

We also have a few electronic sensor managed international engines in our trucks...not so easy. We do have the diagnostics software for them...still pita to trouble shoot some times.
"Oh a did you grab the wire harness and wiggle it, when it did that?"

Could not imagine having to get a tech to plug into a chipper, a really expensive chipper too boot!
 
Computers are the way of the future, we are in the "growing pains" portion of that technology.

Several of the Terex machines come with an on board engine management interface. I ran a 750hd out of fuel chipping with my excavator. It had a warning code, I opened it and it said low fuel pressure (makes sense since it ran out of fuel). Pretty nifty I thought.

One reason why mechanical engines are easier to diagnose is we have decades of understanding regarding how they work and what goes wrong. Most any problem on a 7.3/6.0/6.4/6.7 Powerstrokes can be figured out with a scanner and google given the massive reservoir of knowledge on that engine due to the shear number produced. Given time, computer controller engines could be like the difference of carbs to EFI... Way more reliability, efficiency, and power.


I have no defense for emissions though.
 
I figured the $ would be up there, I was guessing around $30,000 for a 200hp Deere. I dont know any of the guys from FJR, but they are close to me, guessing you sold them that sweet 540 Gehl they are towing around. Not real familiar with the Terex machines, and don't see many around here, or older Woodsman's. Guessing its dealer support, I think the closest dealer is outside Milwaukee, and they haven't been up for bringing out a demo machine. To be honest though, Ill only ask a sales guy once, if you blow me off then I wont go out of my way to call you back.
 
Yep, that 540 was mine originally and sold it to them, although I sell those new as well as Avant and Boxer. They just got a large grapple truck as well from TCI in Dayton.

$30k for the engine, or for the whole machine? Demo machines at the drop of a hat are tough for me, as I'm a young dealer (as well as young in general at 28) and don't have the history yet to get a floor plan to finance machines I have in stock. I'm also in Mississippi, but I sorta specialize in far reaching, personal service (Such as with FJR). There certainly is a formidable Morbark dealer for you (Alexander). FJR bought their Carlton 7015 and 18R from them (prior to me being a Terex dealer).

This is a 750HD with a Tier 3 140hp JD. It belongs to Arborworks1 in South Carolina. Delivered a couple weekends ago, delivered another with a winch to FL last month, still have one available.

The 18R is a wide ranging machine, from roughly 130hp like the T4i 750 to the 275hp (don't know if they still have that hp option) which is an option on the 770 (T4i currently) and standard on the 790. The 790 is far larger than the 18R, 21"x36" throat. The 770 has an 19"x24" throat, the 750HD has an 18"x24" throat, base 750 has a 16"x24" throat.
 
Last edited:
Maybe the increased cost of high-power diesel engines will push chipper manufacturers to design more efficient cutting systems? I expect we'll also see more industrial gas engines hitting the market as well? I'm not opposed to that necessarily. Check out the video below:

 
That difference would add up at the end of the day. Which would add up at the end of the week. Which would add up at the end of the month...Well you get the idea:sorprendido3:
 
Terex currently has an 87hp gas offering for the 730 and a 130hp option for the 750.

The list price difference between the 2014 750 Cat diesel (standard engine) and the 2015 750 gas is about $6k in the gas engine's favor. That difference plus $75 is enough to add the HD infeed and a winch, comparing list pricing to the 2015 machine. Pretty big savings! The 2015 750 130hp T4i diesel adds about $11.5k to the 2014 750, or about a $17k over the 2015 gas 750.

I know the Vermeer 2100 275hp T4F compared to a Terex 790 275hp T4I is about $183k compared to $142k, comparing list numbers. The Terex 790's 375hp T4F option adds ~$44.3k to the list price over the 275hp T4i. I don't have pricing yet on a 250-275hp T4F.

That Bandit video, it seemed like the first chipper had smaller wood and the Vermeer had bigger wood.
 
Last edited:
I happen to like vermeer, but I know there are a lot of haters out there. There is a job, hobby, and make for everyone. I hate videos like this one (same as chainsaw comparison videos), there are just to many unknown variables in them: size, density, live tissue vs dead, knots, sharpness, age of equipment, system settings, etc.

One comment I do have on this subject is that it appears to me that Vermeer has been in the tier 4 game longer, and other makers are just getting started. But I'm not knowledgeable on the subject, so I could be wrong

4986aa6e23530318e4f092f5921a0e8a.jpg


Here is a good pdf on tier 4 engines from them too.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=A40g47b6WcF5Du8J5ZxfWA&bvm=bv.88528373,d.eXY
 
Last edited:
Getting back to the topic of the thread, and the reason I posted the video, the bandit with the 130hp gas engine is chipping faster than the same chipper with a 97hp diesel. This goes against everything we hear about diesels being advantageous and necessary for chippers. Also, the vermeer chipper has a 130 hp diesel engine; if the cutting efficiency were the same as the bandit machines I would expect it to blow them out of the water--even with a slightly larger limb. I don't own either vermeer or bandit for what it's worth.

I'd love to see some unbiased comparisons of different chipper brands, Lumberjack. Do you think your can convince your local bandit or vermeer dealer to lend you something?
 
Evan_WI said:
the bandit with the 130hp gas engine is chipping faster than the same chipper with a 97hp diesel. This goes against everything we hear about diesels being advantageous and necessary for chippers.
Click to expand...

I've wondered about this as well. I'm pretty sure that 130 hp engine is a 4.3 GM. I trust that engine. It's in one of my older trucks and it runs like a champ.

That said, there must be a reason that almost every manufacturer has been using diesels for decades. I expect that it has to do with durability and fuel economy. Also, I bet a comparable diesel would destroy a gas engine in torque rating. That equals more power delivery to the drum at lower RPM.

I'm not convinced a gas engine can withstand the huge loads and constant ups and downs in rpm's that chipping large wood generates. But hey, if one of you guys wants to buy the first generation and test it out for me, I'll read your report eagerly!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom