i ran in to this problem a few days ago. i had an 044 with a 20" bar. in a hurry, i didnt' inspect the face or i would have seen the the center further back than it should been and known that was the gonna be a problem on the back cut. i had to go deeper in the center to get the wedge out even after i bored it twice from the front and busted it out with an axe. i couldn't reach the center on the back cut. i was in a bad situation for a minute. moral of the story is after the tree is cut up to the hinge i cant see any way to trip the center except with a longer bar which i didn't have on the job or from the face side. dont get stuck in this position i was lucky i had a rope on the pole and the ol' dodge power wagon pulling it. 4-low saved me
center post
- Thread starter TGCIII
- Start date
- Location
- Longmont, CO
By the photo it looks like there was about 4" left in the center of the log to be cut. Am I right? And if I do the math right... The cut was being made into the wood at about 44" diameter. If you had a 20" bar, I believe you could have still cut a 60" diameter tree down.
Here is how. See attachment.
Here is how. See attachment.
Attachments
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
moral of the story is after the tree is cut up to the hinge i cant see any way to trip the center except with a longer bar
[/ QUOTE ]
On the back side of the tree, bore a pocket that is big enough to receive your powerhead. That would allow you to reach the center 'post'. I've done this many times for stump cuts. Also good for setting a jack.
Course, what Jamin showed is preferable, although it sounds like you know that method, but you were in a hurry and didn't anticipate needing to bore into the face.
Nice diagram Jamin.
moral of the story is after the tree is cut up to the hinge i cant see any way to trip the center except with a longer bar
[/ QUOTE ]
On the back side of the tree, bore a pocket that is big enough to receive your powerhead. That would allow you to reach the center 'post'. I've done this many times for stump cuts. Also good for setting a jack.
Course, what Jamin showed is preferable, although it sounds like you know that method, but you were in a hurry and didn't anticipate needing to bore into the face.
Nice diagram Jamin.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
BTW. I just updated the illustration to show clearer what the hing wood looks like. I have a 54" log here at my home I put down with a 20" bar. I'll have to snap a photo of it tomorrow.
thanks for the input guys. the problem didn't become apparent to me until i had a fair size pole rockin on what i thought should have been much less hinge than it needed to go on over. the pic shows that i sawed the left side off completely. the truck had the tree and when i sawed the left side of the hinge off it 'bounced' on the bar but didn't sit back, i knew what i had done then but i didn't have any idea how to fix it. tree cut up, hell its cut off on one side, rockin on a center post, aint the time to be trying to cut the center out. jammin's illustration speaks volumes for how u cant reach the center anywhere but from the face or like mahk said from the back with a 'jack like scenario'type thing cut.i got lucky on this one but 4" more width and i got a problem that only more bar can solve. its 20 miles to a 64 and 36" bar thats paid for anyway. i realized my mistake a little late and that was my purpose for the post,"if u aint swingin over half the width of the back cut, take just a minute and think about it". thanks again only thing better than a strong mind is 2
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
That's a nice illustration, Jamin.
TGC111, A center post can stall the tree alright, and happens now and then. You found that out.
Your hingewood shows some conflict(offset) between the right and left side. That can stall a tree too, drastically. And cutting one whole side off ,the left, is a rather risky technique.
Using a loggers tape or gunning sticks to mark the corners for the hinge can help a lot in the prevention of both errors.
Just some advice.
TGC111, A center post can stall the tree alright, and happens now and then. You found that out.
Your hingewood shows some conflict(offset) between the right and left side. That can stall a tree too, drastically. And cutting one whole side off ,the left, is a rather risky technique.
Using a loggers tape or gunning sticks to mark the corners for the hinge can help a lot in the prevention of both errors.
Just some advice.
- Location
- South Jersey
Hello all. Got some layman's questions.
TGC111 - Are the bore cuts to test for soundness of the inside of the tree or do they serve a purpose in felling? They were done on the wedge side, prior to cutting the wedge?
Jamin - Does that technique that you showed have a name? I've never seen it done before. It looks from the illustration that it would take a lot of skill and experience to do properly. A poor angle or position of your plunge cut (picture 3, step 3) could take out too much of your hinge wood and make for a bad day, right?
TGC111 - Are the bore cuts to test for soundness of the inside of the tree or do they serve a purpose in felling? They were done on the wedge side, prior to cutting the wedge?
Jamin - Does that technique that you showed have a name? I've never seen it done before. It looks from the illustration that it would take a lot of skill and experience to do properly. A poor angle or position of your plunge cut (picture 3, step 3) could take out too much of your hinge wood and make for a bad day, right?
Raven
Branched out member
- Location
- Northwoods
"It looks from the illustration that it would take a lot of skill and experience to do properly."
Too true Barnhouse. Although Jamin's illustration is spot on and is now saved in my hard drive (thanx, J), this technique is NOT for the newbie. It should be practiced in a 'controlled' situation, whatever that is.
Evaluate each situation very carefully and if you find yourself wanting to work beyond your skill level, STOP. Get someone with more experience or get a longer bar.
"only thing better than a strong mind is 2"
That is truly great advice for this line of work.
Too true Barnhouse. Although Jamin's illustration is spot on and is now saved in my hard drive (thanx, J), this technique is NOT for the newbie. It should be practiced in a 'controlled' situation, whatever that is.
Evaluate each situation very carefully and if you find yourself wanting to work beyond your skill level, STOP. Get someone with more experience or get a longer bar.
"only thing better than a strong mind is 2"
That is truly great advice for this line of work.
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
Those bore cuts were to split out the undercut. A good technique to have in the tool box.
Cutting trees with short bars does take practice. No doubt about it. But practice enough you can get good at anything.
Cutting trees with short bars does take practice. No doubt about it. But practice enough you can get good at anything.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
I don't know if it has a name or not.
I'm sure Jerry would know. I checked out a logging book at my local library in 2002 and found the technique. Because I was too poor to buy a large saw at the time, and some of my tree removals 3 times the size of my bar, I used this technique on those.
And dang it! I forgot to take the photo of my log.
And dang it! I forgot to take the photo of my log.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
We often did removals where the bar wasn't long enough. That technique was shown to us in the apprenticeship training. Good tool in the bag!
[ QUOTE ]
That's a nice illustration, Jamin.
TGC111, A center post can stall the tree alright, and happens now and then. You found that out.
Your hingewood shows some conflict(offset) between the right and left side. That can stall a tree too, drastically. And cutting one whole side off ,the left, is a rather risky technique.
Using a loggers tape or gunning sticks to mark the corners for the hinge can help a lot in the prevention of both errors.
Just some advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
advice well taken sir when i tried to reach a little deeper which lead to the center of the face being to 'inverted, just that inverted' thats tells the real story. i should have known right then i can't get the back, at least conventionally. but instead i progressed to the boring from the front which got that part of the job done but finishing the back cut was still a issue that was coming up soon. it worked out ok and just the conversation from one picture that we've all had is pretty strong. my education for the most part, didnt come anything like this but it's great. jammin's got the illustrations to back what he's feelin and thats even better. thanks to all
That's a nice illustration, Jamin.
TGC111, A center post can stall the tree alright, and happens now and then. You found that out.
Your hingewood shows some conflict(offset) between the right and left side. That can stall a tree too, drastically. And cutting one whole side off ,the left, is a rather risky technique.
Using a loggers tape or gunning sticks to mark the corners for the hinge can help a lot in the prevention of both errors.
Just some advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
advice well taken sir when i tried to reach a little deeper which lead to the center of the face being to 'inverted, just that inverted' thats tells the real story. i should have known right then i can't get the back, at least conventionally. but instead i progressed to the boring from the front which got that part of the job done but finishing the back cut was still a issue that was coming up soon. it worked out ok and just the conversation from one picture that we've all had is pretty strong. my education for the most part, didnt come anything like this but it's great. jammin's got the illustrations to back what he's feelin and thats even better. thanks to all
Attachments
[ QUOTE ]
By the photo it looks like there was about 4" left in the center of the log to be cut. Am I right? And if I do the math right... The cut was being made into the wood at about 44" diameter. If you had a 20" bar, I believe you could have still cut a 60" diameter tree down.
Here is how. See attachment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice job with the attachment. What program were you using to make it?
By the photo it looks like there was about 4" left in the center of the log to be cut. Am I right? And if I do the math right... The cut was being made into the wood at about 44" diameter. If you had a 20" bar, I believe you could have still cut a 60" diameter tree down.
Here is how. See attachment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice job with the attachment. What program were you using to make it?
- Location
- Longmont, CO
Thanks. I used "Paint" on Windows XP. It is not Adobe Illustrator, but I can get a point accross.
[ QUOTE ]
Hello all. Got some layman's questions.
TGC111 -
Jamin - Does that technique that you showed have a name? I've never seen it done before. It looks from the illustration that it would take a lot of skill and experience to do properly. A poor angle or position of your plunge cut (picture 3, step 3) could take out too much of your hinge wood and make for a bad day, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is the way european fallers cut trees. We are not in the habit of using long bars, and therefore rely on plungecutting.
I spend most of my winter falling mature beechtrees, 3-4 feet DBH and never use a bar longer than 24".
As for the ( picture 3, step 3)plungecut. NEVER plunge in right behind the "hinge to be". Always plunge a little behind it and then once the saw is all the way in, bring it forward, while keeping it parrallel with the facecut.
Otherwise a little carelessnes while cutting, can ruin the day.
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it's kind of hard to replace.
Hello all. Got some layman's questions.
TGC111 -
Jamin - Does that technique that you showed have a name? I've never seen it done before. It looks from the illustration that it would take a lot of skill and experience to do properly. A poor angle or position of your plunge cut (picture 3, step 3) could take out too much of your hinge wood and make for a bad day, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is the way european fallers cut trees. We are not in the habit of using long bars, and therefore rely on plungecutting.
I spend most of my winter falling mature beechtrees, 3-4 feet DBH and never use a bar longer than 24".
As for the ( picture 3, step 3)plungecut. NEVER plunge in right behind the "hinge to be". Always plunge a little behind it and then once the saw is all the way in, bring it forward, while keeping it parrallel with the facecut.
Otherwise a little carelessnes while cutting, can ruin the day.
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it's kind of hard to replace.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
[ QUOTE ]
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it'a kind of hard to replace.
[/ QUOTE ]
3M is working on Hingewood Adhesive...along with Cambium Adhesive to reglue limbs that are accidentally cut off.
http://tinyurl.com/8dva2w
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it'a kind of hard to replace.
[/ QUOTE ]
3M is working on Hingewood Adhesive...along with Cambium Adhesive to reglue limbs that are accidentally cut off.
http://tinyurl.com/8dva2w
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it'a kind of hard to replace.
[/ QUOTE ]
3M is working on Hingewood Adhesive...along with Cambium Adhesive to reglue limbs that are accidentally cut off.
http://tinyurl.com/8dva2w
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope they are going to sell it in 55 gallon drums.
[ QUOTE ]
Like I tell my apprentices, once you've cut too much hingewood away, it'a kind of hard to replace.
[/ QUOTE ]
3M is working on Hingewood Adhesive...along with Cambium Adhesive to reglue limbs that are accidentally cut off.
http://tinyurl.com/8dva2w
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope they are going to sell it in 55 gallon drums.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
I've heard of that technique called "cutting the guts out". I think that is the technical, scientific name for it.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
As for the ( picture 3, step 3)plungecut. NEVER plunge in right behind the "hinge to be". Always plunge a little behind it and then once the saw is all the way in, bring it forward, while keeping it parrallel with the facecut.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely right Stig. I second that. Husqvarna has a great illustration for this very method. Felling Techniques (Scroll down about 80% to see the method) And they even include felling a tree which DBH is twice as long as the length of the bar.
Good stuff.
As for the ( picture 3, step 3)plungecut. NEVER plunge in right behind the "hinge to be". Always plunge a little behind it and then once the saw is all the way in, bring it forward, while keeping it parrallel with the facecut.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely right Stig. I second that. Husqvarna has a great illustration for this very method. Felling Techniques (Scroll down about 80% to see the method) And they even include felling a tree which DBH is twice as long as the length of the bar.
Good stuff.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
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