Career choices & experiences?

macrocarpa

Branched out member
Location
Midwest
I am interested in hearing others opinions on career choices in our industry.

From Your experience, how would you compare job satisfaction, struggles & income/benefits given these three options:

-Working for a private sector tree care company that pays an industry standard wage and has other qualified arborists to work with daily:

-Owning & operating your own business

-Working for a municipal urban forestry division
 
I would say that it largely depends on what you enjoy doing most and want your life to look like. Most of us enjoy the work: climbing, rigging, felling and the challenges it creates. One of the things In enjoy most is taking the tools I have available to me and working a solution.

Being a business owner, while it has the ability to create a good financial reward quicker, it also has the ability to bring financial ruin if not done correctly and has created a different set of challenges. Challenges that I am having to learn to find pleasure in. Managing employees, spending lots of time with clients, doing financial work, taxes, purchasing trucks, billing, etc. All these things become more important than climbing trees as an owner.

I can't speak for municipalities in terms of daily operations but I know the benefits are good and there are career opportunities. Working for a strong, passionate company who's views aligned with yours; I think would be a good choice for most.
I honestly believe that financial health and career opportunities are products of responsible actions and a dedication to your work. Bonners latest move is a great example if you are familiar with that.
 
Make sure you have a passion for trees, and the rest will follow. Being a business owner can truly steer one away from what got them into the world of tree work in the first place, but it could be more bearable if the undercurrent remains...passion for trees. The reminder of why we're here in the first place.

After meeting so many folks at conferences and trade shows, workshops and board meetings, I have a strong opinion that the door is wide open for people to explore Arboriculture with creativity and drive being the limiting factors.

-Working for a private sector tree care company that pays an industry standard wage and has other qualified arborists to work with daily:
...I imagine most qualified arborists are still working with under qualified, under motivated people in the private sector. We should be going for the quan, though. Overall attitude within a crew is the most important thing in my opinion, and the qualifications can come in time. Having a positive work environment is truly satisfying, and if your pay covers your cost of living+, you're doing something right.

-Owning & operating your own business:
...As stated above, you can get sucked away from your original interests, but focus on the original passion, and work hard on finding and retaining the right people (attitudes). Think of a coach having a dream team. You have to find the justifications in the means and not in the end. If your justification is in the end, you may never be satisfied.

-Working for a municipal urban forestry division:
...I'm most curious to hear from the one and only Tom D. about this. He could surely weigh in heavily. I do know a handful of local town employees that became quite disenchanted with their working environment.
 
I echo Eric's comment, you MUST have a passion for trees. This work is too physically demanding to do and not love. I have been in muni out on the crews, have had the pleasure and headache of my own business, been in full time instruction for a time and have cycled back to muni. Anyone who knows me knows I have a passion for trees, quality work and safety. I have enjoyed all the different jobs I have had and have learned a great deal from all of them. There are several things I find that really make this profession enjoyable and probably the most important is networking with like minded individuals.I have learned far more from attending conferences and serving on boards than any college education could begin to provide. Yes, ISA and TCIA cost $$ for dues etc. but if you utilize what they provide, it will pay dividends. My current situation is within the muni area and it is in a managing position, so I'm not out on a crew. I am fortunate to be in a division that has a large number of emloyees and in a osition that allows me to work retty independantly from most of the others. I am regularly consulted when issues come up and I do set certain policy. I have a direct effect on the city tree ordinance and network with civil engineers, developers and builders on a daily basis. I often comment that I have a great job for a fat, old tree climber. Thing is, I wouldn't have this job if I didn't do all the things I have done up to now (as above). My time in business was very educational but came at poor timing. Shortly after I had left my former muni job and began my business, my son was diagnosed with leukemia which diverted a lot of energy and dollars which eventually took its toll. I managed to stay in business for 11 years and am happy to say my son, who was 6 at the time is now 32. I did discover that I was really not cut out to be a business owner through all of that. Hope thia has provided some positive input.
 
I've just started my 'third career' in arborculture. My whole life has been involved with treework. My first job, besides mowing yards, was dragging brush at 12 years old. At the beginning of the month I moved 'back home' to start a job with the city of Minneapolis Forestry department.

-Working for a private sector tree care company that pays an industry standard wage and has other qualified arborists to work with daily:

~~~Middle career---For the previous ten years I've worked for a variety of tree companies/organizations. In most situations I found a few like-minded co-workers who have a passion for treework. In some the owner did too. Other times it was so much about tenths of a percent of production costs it drove me batty. Instead of changing to a better method of working they tried to do more. Result---frustration. Too often I found that my standards for safety and production weren't accepted. In fact, too often, even industry standards were too high. This lead to friction too. Having authority but no power is not a way to move ahead. There are companies that do strive to do better. They are out there but sometimes hard to find.

-Owning & operating your own business

~~~First career---did that for 25 years. Started out as a hack because that's what I was taught. Since I didn't know any better my Evil Tom mode seemed to work for me. Once I got involved in the profession by reading trade magazines and attending workshops and conferences I realized that if I was going to be accepted and move ahead I had to change. That wasn't hard to do either. While running my tree care company I started to teach classes related to treework. This started out as freebies and over time became sort of a part-time living to my tree care company. This seemed, to me, to set things up to make a step away from my day to day tree company and into some sort of management position. It did, but I didn't find a company or organization where I fit in. It took a while to accept that I needed to lower production expectations but I struggled with lowering my safety expectations.

-Working for a municipal urban forestry division

~~~Third career---Starting out with the lowest seniority now I'm in a great municipal system. All new hires have to have prior tree care experience. 2-3 years, I don't recall since my 40 years certainly covered that requirement :) There are lots of special projects within Forestry besides prune/remove/plant too. In time I'm hoping to be able to share my skills and experiences in some of those projects. Even in this short time I've used some of the sales skills that I learned when I ran my treecare company. The city residents are our customers. In Minneapolis the residents really do have a sense of ownership over their boulevard trees. Residents have come out, even during single digit air temps, to ask about what we were going to do with 'their tree'. Being able to enroll them in our long term, tree-time, view of their tree they have a better understanding of why we're doing the work like we do. This is rewarding...kind of like closing a sale on the commercial side.

I wouldn't give up my first two careers. There were challenges that were hard to get over. Bumps and pitfalls too. That said, I've had amazing opportunities along the way. If I didn't like my work so much though I wonder if I would have stuck with the jobs that I had. Sometimes I would have sold my treecare company for $100 and walked away...others, pricless.

Minneapolis Forestry is going to be hiring a few more people. When I hear about that I'll be sure to put a note in 'Job Finder'.
 
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I echo Eric's comment, you MUST have a passion for trees. This work is too physically demanding to do and not love. I have been in muni out on the crews, have had the pleasure and headache of my own business, been in full time instruction for a time and have cycled back to muni. Anyone who knows me knows I have a passion for trees, quality work and safety. I have enjoyed all the different jobs I have had and have learned a great deal from all of them. There are several things I find that really make this profession enjoyable and probably the most important is networking with like minded individuals.I have learned far more from attending conferences and serving on boards than any college education could begin to provide. Yes, ISA and TCIA cost $$ for dues etc. but if you utilize what they provide, it will pay dividends. My current situation is within the muni area and it is in a managing position, so I'm not out on a crew. I am fortunate to be in a division that has a large number of emloyees and in a position that allows me to work pretty independently from most of the others. I am regularly consulted when issues come up and I do set certain policy. I have a direct effect on the city tree ordinance and network with civil engineers, developers and builders on a daily basis. I often comment that I have a great job for a fat, old tree climber. Thing is, I wouldn't have this job if I didn't do all the things I have done up to now (as above). My time in business was very educational but came at poor timing. Shortly after I had left my former muni job and began my business, my son was diagnosed with leukemia which diverted a lot of energy and dollars which eventually took its toll. I managed to stay in business for 11 years and am happy to say my son, who was 6 at the time is now 32. I did discover that I was really not cut out to be a business owner through all of that. Hope thia has provided some positive input.

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What a great post. My situation is almost opposite of yours, but I can relate to your words like you may not be able to imagine! Very humbling, this life in trees!

-Tom
 
Alterego's HA. Thanks Tom for the kind words. We need to meet some day for sure. Maybe if things work for me for next year's TCIA Expo.
 
"From Your experience, how would you compare job satisfaction, struggles & income/benefits given these three options:

1-Working for a private sector tree care company that pays an industry standard wage and has other qualified arborists to work with daily:

Not much help here--I was unable to continue working for anyone else, because I thought I knew a better way, and like flexibility in scheduling my time. Not really ornery, but independent.

Owning & operating my own business was my only option, but it is NOT for everyone. Blending in consulting can make for a good niche, but you gotta know your stuff.

Never tried working for a municipal urban forestry division, but I worked for 3 different universities. The pace (yawn) and bureaucracy were not a fit either time.

What do you really want to do? What are you comfortable and confident doing?
smile.gif
 
Wow! Awesome responses, Thanks!

I started working with trees in 2000 and still drive "non-tree people" crazy with how much I talk about trees. So I think the passion is there.

"What do you really want to do? What are you comfortable and confident doing?"

I started my career with Davey, worked for a municipality and owned my business for the last 10 years. But having packed up and moved from where the business was established, my options are wide open right now. I currently started the business up at my new location and took a seasonal position with a municipality. The idea of a 7-330 job and PHC/Consulting/Pruning on the side interests me. But I also enjoyed the freedom of self employment. But the down time was brutal even if I had already brought in enough $ to be comfortable, I just don't deal well with idle time.

The wealth of knowledge and willingness to share on tree-buzz amazes me.
 
This is really about a self analysis of what motivates you, what are you drawn to, what challenges you. It seems from your comment above is that you like the self-employment but lacked in time management. I've said this in other posts but will reiterate it: You are a business person first a tree person second when you own you're own.

Take some business management courses. Time management and planning will help you fill that idle time. Sales and Marketing will lead you to be busy full time, either on production, operations, or selling.

I've worked in primarily small companies in the private sector and have my own side business. Some companies have been great, others, not so much. The company I'm with now is a young growing business with great leadership and a passion for learning. It's exciting to be a part of it.
 
In hindsight I would have done a few things differently. Like anyone of course.

The most fun and rewarding time in my career was the latter part of running my tree company. The hard work and changing to being a better arbo had paid off. I didn't stick around for the rewards though.
 
The most rewarding of my career so far has been the same Tom. The last several years of running the business was successful, but the area/market I was in would be the limiting factor.

Hope you enjoy working for Minneapolis! Seems like an evolved program. Some cities are structured where workers are in the "street" department and trees fall under that umbrella. In that case sharing the passion for trees isn't there from my experience. But being departmentalized to specialize in one trade like "urban forestry" probably attracts focused/quality arbs.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some cities are structured where workers are in the "street" department and trees fall under that umbrella. In that case sharing the passion for trees isn't there from my experience. But being departmentalized to specialize in one trade like "urban forestry" probably attracts focused/quality arbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this 100%, I'm the City Arborist/Forester in this exact set up, and it really seems like I'm the only guy that has any passion for tree work. I enjoy the pay and benefits, but I wont lie I would really enjoy working with some other arborists or more knowledgeable tree workers, if anything it would make me a better arborist. Its disheartening at times the stuff I have to justify or fight for and just the general lack of value some municipality's have for their trees. Another thing to consider on the municipal side of things, especially in a street/forestry department. You will likely spend a good bit of time not doing anything related to forestry, i.e. patching potholes, plowing snow, or in my case I get to drive a garbage truck, although thankfully not as much as I used to.
 
I just plowed snow for 65 hours last week, lol.

Ya, I think the separation from streets is critical for an Urban Forestry Division to thrive. Under park and rec is much better fit. I'd rather work with 1 well paid arborist then 3 workers who have no interest in the field, and accomplish more no doubt.
 
"The most fun and rewarding time in my career was the latter part of running my tree company. The hard work and changing to being a better arbo had paid off. I didn't stick around for the rewards though."

Those rewards are nice. Just got a call today from a repeat customer, from 7.5 years ago. Made a deal to prune 2 little trees and do a walkaround while on the clock. A very enjoyable 2 hours, and 4+ more hours waiting there, on the clock, no bids needed. The best part, the trees all look great!

"You are a business person first a tree person second when you own your own. "

th, this may be true with a sizeable business. I had to downsize until the tree person got to stay on top. And he's gonna stay there!
 
Very cool thread.

I grew up in this field, learned to love it like crazy. Climbing for pay at 12, so much fun. When I was in my early twenties I thought I'd try the municipal world (I don't know why). It was the most grueling 14 months of my life. Maybe it was the towns lack of real concern for trees and for the proper care of them.
After 14 months of agony I went back to the real world of trees. I worked for a couple places, some great some just didn't care. I gave up and started my own thing so I can try and educate people and hopefully make a difference.
Business ownership isn't the most fun. I just want to be out climbing.
To me, it's the best career.
 
"th, this may be true with a sizeable business. I had to downsize until the tree person got to stay on top. And he's gonna stay there!"

Interesting thought! Good approach and I'm glad for you Guy.

I have wrestled with the whole "passion for trees" idea. Don't get me wrong, I think they are awesome and I have a lot of admiration for the ones that have been allowed to hang around for a century or two. I also love the old Dogwoods and Redbuds around here; they endure just about anything. I can't count how many old funky looking ones I have saved from home owners who didn't appreciate a tree that wasn't symmetrical or perfectly shaped...but a passion? I just don't know if I can say that. Sounds horrible but I like a good challenging removal as much as pruning and more than doing airspade work.

I got into it because I love the daily variations of challenges and I really enjoyed climbing.

I am kind of taking a different route from Guy. I decided that the challenge of creating an awesome career path for my employees is just as exciting and I have set out on that path. I don't want to create a huge company and I will still jump on opportunities to climb but I want my company to become more about my employees than myself. I have a great group of young, talented guys right now. I hate to think that I could only provide them a "job" for a couple years as "Ben's helper" as it has been in the past. We'll see where it goes.
 
Around me is just disheartening what there is for public tree care.

Guy, I understand exactly where you're coming from. Your's is one model of success where you can be a company of one and do both jobs or even delegate the administrative chores to someone trained in that while you do what your best at, taking care of trees. For most of the tree care businesses small or large, what I mean when I say business first, trees second, is this; that in order to be successful and deliver not only great tree care to your clients but an excellent, stable and thriving company for employees the owner needs to understand how to operate and manage the business first. Knowing trees and having a passion for them will benefit your technical team by being a resource and an inspiration, both critical for leadership.

From administration and operations to sales and marketing, taking care of these elements means that the owner is strategically looking forward to continue creating, developing, growing and maintaining their market niche. This will create the culture where the passion for trees can flourish in your technicians. There focus is where it should be on the service and technical know how to deliver an amazing customer experience. While the owner is focused on ensuring an ongoing revenue stream to finance the companies needs and show a profit.
 
I love it, always have loved trees.
you just have to love a modiste life style. because is is not gonna pay great , never will. by design it cannot. but by design it will never be a bad income either. and the work is interesting, and rewarding for the most part.


the biggest challenge I see with it is getting old.

my advice to anyone starting is fight for a good income and then put 10% away right off the top. put in a account you cannot get it back out of, and with a good return.

second, don't spend a dime on school. this is my opinion and Is probably not worth much. but its a debt that does not increase your marketability very much. certifications and experience increase marketability. making 200 to 500 dollar a month payments for a really long time is hard to justify in our line of work, plus if you want to do arboriculture, start out of high school and make money for the first 4 years of your productive life rather than rack up dept.

4 years at 12 bucks a hrs = roughly 100k positive
4 years of college is roughly 50k in debt.
that is a difference of 150k. plus interest which would put it close to 200k.
this does not even reflect the increase in pay with experience.

I did this backwards. I have debt of a college student and the pay of a arborist. that is a bad idea.
 
Treehive, how old are you? How long have you been out of school and in the field?

Schooling is a long term investment not short term. The problem with your logic, is that you're only looking at one aspect of our industry. While you may have a 4 yr headstart it will slowly be eroded as you look to advance your career higher up the income ladder. While the school of experience is valuable it can leave many gaps that a formal education is structured to fill. While that in itself wont prepare you for future shifts the learning skills acquired in school do. That is the real skill you take away from education. How to learn and the value of learning continuously.

Being an arborist is just one job within the arboriculture field. With an education you can more readily move up and into other areas that are more financially rewarding.

Furthermore, people are typically going to have multiple careers in their lifetime (experts say on average 9 different careers). A formal education better prepares you to be able to make those shifts more readily.

I'm on my 6th career, btw.
 

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