Can you guesstimate how much safer you are?

TreeFan

TreeFan

Location
Mount Vernon, Iowa
Hi. I am a physics educator who has long enjoyed lurking on TreeBuzz for several reasons: I like including practical applications from tree work (and other fields) in my physics homework sets; I find the creative advances and gadgets in the field interesting; and I am sorely (and probably irrationally?) tempted to retire early from teaching and take up tree work instead. The main deterrent to taking the plunge is that it scares my wife silly. I’d like to tell her that it would be about as dangerous as occupation X, which would be some more well-known job.

I have tried to find the actual fatality rate for tree workers, but that’s difficult since the number of tree workers is apparently not well known (file:///home/chronos/u-8bc0c8a459701ac7d0936416e31c0b10b111b6dc/Downloads/p224-229%20(2).pdf ). One calculation claims 40 fatalities per 100,000 workers (http://allabouttrees.com/wp-content/uploads/guides/safety/Accidents_in_Arboriculture.pdf) but they don’t really say how they estimate the number of workers. Regardless of that rate, what really impressed me was that according to TCIA’s estimate (https://www.wcisa.net/Post/Documents/John Ball Handout - Big Island.pdf ) workers known to belong to TCIA companies have a fatality rate about 8 times lower than average.

I imagine that even among TCIA companies, some are more safety conscious than others. So do you think that you can guesstimate how much safer (if any) you are than the average guy in a TCIA company? I understand that this will be a pretty wild guess and I do realize that the occupation will remain dangerous regardless of worker diligence, but even rough guesses like “less safe”, “about as safe”, “somewhat safer”, or “quite a bit safer” would be interesting to hear. If you can’t do that, maybe you could instead share advice on dealing with an anxious spouse. Thanks.
 
My better half commented that I should take up a safer career like being an accountant. I told her that in no was it safer for me to sit at a desk all day as I would end up sucking on a gun barrel.
Now she just tells me to be safe.

I hate that our accident rate statistics are so skewed. Take a look in the tci magazine and see how almost all of those accidents are due to a complete lack of training (ie homeowners) or obvious disregard for safety. Every once in a blue moon there is an accident in there that makes me think twice about how that could actually happen to someone who plays by the rules.

Is tree work dangerous? It can be. But so are alot of things. But just like anything when proper training, accreditation, and continued encouragement of the best practices are applied it becomes inherently safer.
Driving is a great analogy to use with the wife.
Good luck
 
If you want to be safe... You will be safer.

Take the moment to acknowledge when you are doing something dangerous and want to be safe, listen to the voice in your head and go with your gut.

Imo, Driving to and from your job is more dangerous, because you have to count on other people to look out for you. Many people take driving a box of metal down the road a few feet from other boxes of metal for granted as being no big deal.

Check yourself, and then recheck yourself. Nothing wrong with pausing, thinking and looking twice before proceeding.
 
I don't do this for a living but I can say that the more classes, courses, and climbing with pros I do the safer I become. There are so many factors to safety that really can't be addressed properly without having a professional with you at the site. A local pro that knows your specific trees is also priceless.

As far as the wife goes first take a hard look at yourself. Are you physically and mentally ready to do tree work or climb trees. Once you are just commit yourself by buying quality gear and start slow. Invite her along to see you climb low and slow. Don't be surprised if she never wants to watch you again. The only people that usally get us are other tree people.

Alot with the wife will have to do with you. For me to start climbing at 50 was not a huge shock to my wife, still makes her nervous but knows who I am as a person. Since I was a kid all of my hobbies have been some form of controlled kaos; skateboards, street luges, motorcycles, kick boxing, rugby....and the list goes on. "Hey I want learn to climb trees" was not exactly out of my personality.

Good luck, tree work sucks. But we all live for it.
 
In my opinion, you can and will be safe if you want to be safe. In other words, I know trained and highly skilled tree guys whom I don't consider safe, because they don't care to be. They're in too much of a rush, or they just don't think it will happen to them, or they just make too many "F it!" moves, etc, etc. But if you know what you're doing (proper training, like everyone else mentioned) and choose to place safety #1, you'll be fine.

Yes, accidents happen. Yes, there are always variables and unknowns in tree work (just like everything in life.). But I strongly agree about the car analogy, and have often used that in other parts of my life. 38,300 auto fatalities in the US in 2015, and we just accept that. Nobody ever thinks about that when they're headed to McD's for dinner or just stuck in their morning commute to the office. But when a tree worker gets killed, it usually makes the news and everyone says "Wow, that's dangerous!"
 
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Thanks for all the responses. I think some of those approaches may actually comfort her a bit. I thought there might be more of the "it's dangerous-- get over it" genre, but it looks like many of you agree that your safety is determined more by your care than the nature of the job. The auto accident analogy is good, and she has at first objected to risk in some of my activities only to get used to them later. And if all else fails -- I can fall back on saying that once I'm 1/2 as safe as Levi, my risk will be about that of a hair dresser.
 
Working for a company that values safety above production - and bids jobs accordingly - is crucial to employee welfare. Training crews to be efficient is important to profitability. But any company that directly or indirectly encourages employees to cut corners on safety in order to be faster or "make the bid" is terrible, maybe criminal.

And then, take responsibility to educate yourself and don't make the stupid mistakes. There are plenty of new mistakes to make, and learn from. Just don't make the stupid ones. Those same things - such as no harness in a bucket - get guys killed every year.

Together, those two points above should put you in the top 5% for safety in all of arboriculture - maybe top 1%.
 
Tree work is as dangerous as YOU make it. If you equip yourself well, surrounded yourself with like-minded employees and NEVER stop learning -you'll be just fine. I have always held the safety of myself and my team above everything else and I practice what I preach. Sure, sometimes doing things safely takes a little longer, but all of my employees are paid hourly , so abiding to all safety standards is a win-win for them.
 
Safety can't just be lip service. I worked for a guy who talked safety, but then would tell you to do dangerous things. He told me to "just prune those limbs out of the power lines. Oh, and by the way, if you get hurt it's not my responsibility because you should know better." He would tell you that you had to do something dangerous, but "this is off the record."

Completely negligent. I had another job lined up right away.

Always think about what you are about to do and what could go wrong. Plan for the job, and prepare for the worst. If you know that what you are about to do isn't safe, then don't do it. If you don't feel good about what you are going to do, it probably won't end well.

Inspect your gear and equipment. If it isn't safe to use, don't use it.

Don't underbid a job on a hazard tree just because the customer doesn't want to pay for it. If he doesn't want to pay for a crane or lift, move on. It's not your responsibility to risk your life to save him $$$$. You will win some bids, lose some bids. That's the game.

Don't use the bucket truck as a crane, that's what cranes are made for. Keep your head and pay attention to what you are doing. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Finally, don't put a newbie in a tree or expect them to know how to safely do anything.

Tree work is high risk, but it can be done safely.
 
I just cut up a triple action snap yesterday because it did something funny while I was in the canopy. Immediately made a work around and removed it from my lanyard, when I got home I tried and tried to make it repeat what I didn't like in the canopy. Never could repeat it, but it still got cut in half and thrown away. Not worth the risk.
 
Get a summer job with a good company to learn the job. When you are ready to go out on your own advertise summer work and see how you do. Don't expect the rest of the year to feed you because things can get really slow between fall spring.
 
Now treework is safe if one chooses safety over production...over money ....over bravado....does not equate to SLOW either...speed with safe practice comes with experience and problem solving...trees are really big 3D puzzles...one must learn to use it's structure/ species to your full advantage...adding smart climbing techniques to one's arsenal...there is no short cutting in treework it only extrapolates chances of a negative outcome whether injury or property damage...let your wife lurk the buzz and familiarize herself with our lovely industry...an office job ...hmmm could not think of more torment.....
 
If you want stats on the mortality rates for tree workers, get in contact with dr. John ball. I think he is from either south or north Dakota state university. He has dissected those stats and come up with realistic numbers. I've seen him multiple times at Wisconsin arborist association conferences and is always informative and entertaining. Worthwhile if you ever get the opportunity to see him speak.
 
Who the hell wants to look at morbib mortality rates and shit...focus on life and doing things right from the beginning...I never had formal training...deep end for me...I just knew my limits from the first day and educated myself from day one....NEVER biting off more than I could do...I just evolved over my career....one tree at a time...evolved into a descent arb...it is a simple formula...build a skill set over time....don't rush the process....
 
X10 on the comment - "It is as safe as you want it to be".

My advice if you are passionate. Get a harness, helmet, and rope then attend a few TCIA workshops. Practice low and slow.

If you want, pay for a week-long or 3 day basic climber training from a verified outfit.

I did after 2 years of working in the field. The best part was learning about ANSI from front to back. The second best was Ariel rescue and real-time feedback from trained long-timers. The little tips and "things to consider" we're put into production immediately because I want to be as safe as possible.

Last piece of advice - don't let "your better half watch". My fiancé came out to a job site for the first time - a big Douglas fir removal - we had a serious talk that night about what I do daily.

She now gets that I love it and the daily reward - the challenge, the problem salving, the grind, the sense of accomplishment - is with it to me. She just wants me to get more life insurance now!!!!

Climb safe!




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