Calculation of pic weight accuracy

Mark Chisholm said:
I actually don't touch the tree. I position to the side of movement and just close enough to reach it. You have to be very sure that you are in the right position no matter how you do it.

I would also say (to anyone reading this that's never done it) DO NOT secure to a tree and crane at the same time when there is potential movement. Things could go bad fast. :frenetico:
Click to expand...

Can't say I agree with this but sure, sometimes I guess. Circumstances dictate.
 
Mark Chisholm said:
I actually don't touch the tree. I position to the side of movement and just close enough to reach it. You have to be very sure that you are in the right position no matter how you do it.

I would also say (to anyone reading this that's never done it) DO NOT secure to a tree and crane at the same time when there is potential movement. Things could go bad fast. :frenetico:
Click to expand...
This is why my feet might be touching to keep me from twisting but from the side Once the piece starts to move I am free of it. I'm not in the direction of movement therefor no ride here!
 
southsoundtree said:
What weight is reasonably for snubbing off a leafy top onto the sling? Are you peeling them into the sling or just dropping them freely?
Click to expand...
For me, it's all about what the tree will hold. My gear is plenty strong. If you are comfortable with it going into a 1/2" line, you are probably good. Snubbing is roughly 3-4x the weight of the piece (as a rule of thumb) drop distance and other variables can change that.
 
allmark said:
This is why my feet might be touching to keep me from twisting but from the side Once the piece starts to move I am free of it. I'm not in the direction of movement therefor no ride here!
Click to expand...
Mark Chisholm said:
For me, it's all about what the tree will hold. My gear is plenty strong. If you are comfortable with it going into a 1/2" line, you are probably good. Snubbing is roughly 3-4x the weight of the piece (as a rule of thumb) drop distance and other variables can change that.
Click to expand...

Humboldt (sp?) (most often for the cut if slow controlled fall is mandatory)...Re Southsound question...and the foliage sail gives a real slow fall in conjunction. Seldom use half inch but always Tenex. Many lengths and dia available to us always. WAY under capacity with my work. Like I said, been doing this maybe longer than some of you have been alive. But hell yeah...shock load doubles the weight every couple of feet I believe. Don't make mistakes like any other aspect of tree work or you pay. Never heard the term "snubbing" before.
 
allmark said:
This is why my feet might be touching to keep me from twisting but from the side Once the piece starts to move I am free of it. I'm not in the direction of movement therefor no ride here!
Click to expand...

Video or it didn't happen....Just kidding. Main thing is not to get fly swatted on the recoil. Damn thing certainly can't kick back sideways off the fall of the piece. Common sense.
 
"Many lengths and dia available to us always"

The sling link you posted on treestuff the smallest size is a 10ft sling. Is that red sling pictured in your post above 10fters? When I'm out of boom we have always just lowered down what we couldn't pick or folded the lead into the hook. Now I'm thinking how dumb we are and am going to give this a try. It may not be as productive for us since you have a climber and a operator, where is our cutter climber/bucket/spider operator and also that same person crane operator with the remote in the tree. But for the price of a few slings I'm willing to see if it'll make sense for our operation. Which ones do I add to cart?
 
Wouldn't it be true that using TreeVets technique would actually put less load on the tree compared with hanging a large top or limb on a block tied to a porta wrap? I like that advantage too. Could be used for trees that are slightly structurally compromised.
 
ROYCE said:
Wouldn't it be true that using TreeVets technique would actually put less load on the tree compared with hanging a large top or limb on a block tied to a porta wrap? I like that advantage too. Could be used for trees that are slightly structurally compromised.
Click to expand...
Someone with the rock exotica load cell has some testing to do...feel free to send me one, I'll gladly do the field testing
 
ROYCE said:
Wouldn't it be true that using TreeVets technique would actually put less load on the tree compared with hanging a large top or limb on a block tied to a porta wrap? I like that advantage too. Could be used for trees that are slightly structurally compromised.
Click to expand...
From what i gather reading this that's why vet prefers to do this in a bucket. a dead eye sling tied to the tree and the lead once cut it is shock loading the hell out of the tree and he would rather not be on tree. Without a lowering block with a groundie there is no way your are putting less shock on the tree for this method. Or maybe I'm still not sure of this technique that vet is trying to show us.
 
ROYCE said:
would actually put less load on the tree compared with hanging a large top or limb on a block tied to a porta wrap
Click to expand...
Royce, I think that gets pretty complicated. If you hung a top from a block to a porty, AND DIDN'T LET IT RUN AT ALL, you would be doubling the force at the point where the block attaches, as compared to TreeVet's technique. However, when was the last time you put something in the porty and tied it off? Even if it's only a small run, you're dissipating a lot of energy by letting it fall and then slowing it. Also, while most of our ropes aren't dynamic, they do stretch a few percent, and when you're rigging thru a block to the porty, you're probably using 40' to 80' of rope, on average, all of which can stretch and absorb energy. TreeVet's technique, while it starts with a 10' sling, uses most of that length in tying knots and therefore realistically only uses 2 or 3' of rope, so that would impart more force on the tree. So many variables...
I realize I didn't answer your question, and I'm wondering if anyone can actually answer this without some real world testing.
 
I took that particular sling in the link and cut it in half giving 2 slings with one having a bowline tied to it. Both are then girth hitched to the remaining stub and running bowlined to the leader being hung. If too long you can't effectively tie a running bowline unless you marl the hell out of it and that is all about time and waste of it. But I have many lengths ready to go and many thicknesses as this may be too short sometimes. I like to try to capture a crotch or lateral on the branch being hung if possible..
 
Jeff said:
Royce, I think that gets pretty complicated. If you hung a top from a block to a porty, AND DIDN'T LET IT RUN AT ALL, you would be doubling the force at the point where the block attaches, as compared to TreeVet's technique. However, when was the last time you put something in the porty and tied it off? Even if it's only a small run, you're dissipating a lot of energy by letting it fall and then slowing it. Also, while most of our ropes aren't dynamic, they do stretch a few percent, and when you're rigging thru a block to the porty, you're probably using 40' to 80' of rope, on average, all of which can stretch and absorb energy. TreeVet's technique, while it starts with a 10' sling, uses most of that length in tying knots and therefore realistically only uses 2 or 3' of rope, so that would impart more force on the tree. So many variables...
I realize I didn't answer your question, and I'm wondering if anyone can actually answer this without some real world testing.
Click to expand...

I agree there are too many factors to really understand it and every situation is different.
 
limbcontrol said:
From what i gather reading this that's why vet prefers to do this in a bucket. a dead eye sling tied to the tree and the lead once cut it is shock loading the hell out of the tree and he would rather not be on tree. Without a lowering block with a groundie there is no way your are putting less shock on the tree for this method. Or maybe I'm still not sure of this technique that vet is trying to show us.
Click to expand...

Yes, shock load is going to be the killer. However, once the piece is done moving and resting, double the weight is applied to where the block is attached when your using a porta wrap on the ground. With treevets technique only the weight of the piece is being supported by the tree, not double.
 
ROYCE said:
Yes, shock load is going to be the killer. However, once the piece is done moving and resting, double the weight is applied to where the block is attached when your using a porta wrap on the ground. With treevets technique only the weight of the piece is being supported by the tree, not double.
Click to expand...
This is true Royce. That'd why I said 3-4 times. When we did testing and used a pulley, the load cell was reading 5-8 x the load. That wad with logs though (worst case scenario). As Dave said, brush doesn't increase it's speed as fast if it has some leaves and surface area for sail.
 
I never lie to the climber or the guys on the ground about the weight. Sometimes we make a game out of it. It's all fun and they like it when they beat me at it. Some are better at it than I an. I tell the climber where and how to put the straps and where to cut. Most climbers like that. If the climber don't like like where I an telling them to strap or cut they tell me what they want to do. Some time there set up is better and we do it that way. But we both have to always agree on the cut. I will tell them how the wood is going to come off (spinning or if a limb is going to make the butt kick out) and they will tell me how they think the wood will come off. I see things the climber don't see and the climber will see things I don't see. You have to talk to each other so that you both can get better and safe.
This is for the (rare) boss or the owner that wants to run the show on every pick. Don't tell me or the climber how to do or jobs all the time. Because I will tell you to go do some bids or something just go away. My job is to keep the climber safe first speed 2nd if the job takes 15 minutes or a 1/2 hour more that should already be in your bid price. If you don't like how we are doing the job fill free to put on a saddle and get in the tree.
 
Graeme is a great guy and arborist! His son Angus is as well. Angus makes the videos and is smart as a whip with the physics and computer work along with the tree stuff. What a team. Hope to see then this fall.

There's a lot of benefits to using that technique. Prepping the tree before the crane gets there, not having to climb out of the bucket it it's too tall, no dynamic movements on the crane, leaving counterweight in the tree to slow movement for the next....
 
Removed a tall live oak yesterday using this snubbing technique. I was able to quickly overwelm my ground crew with wood. I tied the branches above the crotch using a short section of 5/8" polydyne. Then cut them free with a hinge cut. The impact seemed pretty mild since the weight of the branch slowly came onto the rope as it hinged over. Great technique for the toolbox!
 
Mangoes said:
Technique demonstrated here:
http://www.sherbrooketreeservice.com/grants-picnic-reserve/

40yr+ veteran Graeme McMahon demonstrating the technique his mentor Treevet taught him. A technique which was invented by TV, shortly after the Romans built cranes. Which were also TV engineered & designed.
Click to expand...

I was just kidding on that post son but yes, I have been using that technique since the early '70's and if Ekka's site still existed you'd see a full year before the date of this vid I posted extensively on it. Jealousy is an ugly emotion Mango sweetie download.webp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom