Cabling Forum on Treebuzz?

opposablethumb

opposablethumb

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Has any thought been given to a Cabling/Support Systems forum on Treebuzz?

I'm sure it's been thought of...If it's already been discussed and decided, you can go ahead and headbutt me for redundancy.
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Ever since I read Guy M.'s article in TCIA magazine a couple months ago about tree biomechanics, etc., I've been wishing that there was more discussion on cabling systems from practitioners, i.e. treebuzzers. I read anything I can get my hands on related to arboriculture, but there is no single source of tree-related information for me like treebuzz. But cabling is not talked about a lot here.

Considering there are relatively new systems like Cobra and Treesave out, it would seem like this would be a good place for the details of these and the traditional systems to be discussed, since treebuzzers are the folks out there applying the standards and the technologies to individual, specific trees.

Just a suggestion from a greenhorn.
 
I like the suggestion. My only thought is that every cabling discussion I have read here always ends up polarized, or so it seems. Lots of static/dynamic posturing goes on. Maybe this means that we need to talk about it more! :)

-Tom
 
I have used the 4t Cobra recently in both dynamic (horizontal with shock absorber) and static (more veritcal without shock absorber) orientations. Unfortunately, the static set up (two cables, placed 1/3 and 2/3 the distance from union to tips on a 40' caught the branch after it failed in a windsotrm only two months after we placed them (no pics and the tree has been removed since). The owners see us as gods now
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Compared to cable the synthetic stuff is a dream, light easy to place and splice, non-invasive and effective.

I will continue to use dynamic systems and am curious about All Gears new stuff.

2 cents

go cabling forum!
 
Thumbs,

I distinctly remember walking onto the TCIA Expo tradeshow and facing Erk Brudi who was selling Cobra. Over the course of the show I spent a lot of time in the booth talking with Erk and listening to his answers about Cobra and tree dynamics.

That lead to buying the Cobra system and changing my approach to cabling/bracing. It also lead to a friendship with Erk!

Ask away...even without a forum, you do know that any question is fair game!
 
Tom - will do...I'll ask freely...Just thought I'd throw the suggestion out because I don't have the knowledge base to even know what questions to ask yet. I spent a year or so reading the climber's forum and getting an understanding of things, applying them, etc. before I registered and started filling up the board with my own posts...

So, maybe this is a blanket request to others to start talking more about their cabling jobs, forum or none!

cheers
 
I enjoy cabling and we do a lot of it.

If there was a cabling part on treebuzz I would frequently check it out to see what was being discussed.

I feel like cabling discussions often get heated, because there are some that have put in hundreds or thousands of systems and have seen results over the years, verses the new guy that has put a few in and thinks they know everything.

I feel like I have a lot of experience with cabling, but I'm also constantly learning and coming up with faster installation techniques and "experimenting" a little.

If I get some time, I'd like to finish making a component I have on paper and maybe try to patent it. I think it would really advance a cabling system.
 
I have in the past two years been taking down a few trees which we had cabled over twenty two to thirty years ago. Not many, as most are still doing quite well. (I just loaded the wood stove with locust from one that had to be removed over a year ago).

The trees that are most likely to need removal have been the poplars, silver maples, and black locust. The invasive nature of the through-bolting disrupting the integrity of the tree or its ability to compartmentalize could be read like a book.

In many cases the trees had been re-cabled at a higher altitude as the tree grew well above the original, optimal cable placement as determined by its former height at the time of bracing.

In some cases we feel lucky to not have experienced any serious failure, especially where customers had decided against timely updates to the bracing. In only one case did a section of branch fail, and it did so in a way that allowed the cabling to keep the strike zone below it safe. Seems a squirrels nest in the crotch at the base of the branch had lead the critters to chew through the cambium on the topside of that major branch and led to it ripping out of the juncture.

We've found no evidence of wind-throw twisting fractures from a mis-aligned through bolt, and no cable failures (we often used over-sized cable as we tended to not trust the long term integrity of a system which could eventually rust and decay). That being said, the cables seem to nearly always have retained a good portion of their galvanic coating. The bolts always seem to have fared a bit worse.

Reminds me, I need to go get a picture of a 'bracing' job we found in the next yard over from where we were deadwooding trees; that tree's main junction had been pulled together and then held in place with a 3/8" link truckers chain! It looked to have been there for several years.
 
I've maintained for years that any tree taht is cabled, even with the worst system, will out survive itself with no cable. This has proven out after windstorms. Finding torn up trees, that were going to cost a LOT of money, that could have been saved with a few hundred dollars investment. Trees with crappy support systems in the same locale are in perfect shape. How do we sell that value to clients?
 
Cable Talk

At the company I was formly employed at we use to do both dynamic and static cables. We used the cobra system for dynamic cables and the RigGuy wire stops for static system.
The new company I work for is very set in there ways and only installs trough bolts using the preformed wire wraps.
This system is a pain in the A$$ compared to RigGuys wire stops. When I confronted the owner about the Rigguys he stated thate they were not in complience with ANSI standards.

Things I Like about the RigGuys:
-Less Hardware to carry in the tree
-No need for using a wrench
-More Versital application
-Plus if you do the math the RigGuys are cheaper then buying the wraps ,bolts, thimbles, nuts, and washers
 
Re: Cable Talk

I'd welcome a tree support forum. This is one area that both ISA and ANSI need updating. I routinely disagree with the Best Management Practices (BMPs) on cable installations. Sometimes it's easy to say exactly why I think dynamic is a better choice...sometimes not.

Another huge issue is the fact that clients cannot always pony up for the cost of the recommended number and placement of rod/cable/braces, so the arboricultural reality is that trees are supported with less than the recommended anyway.
 
Re: Cable Talk

i think its a great idea. We've recently switched over to dynamic cableing rope which seems to be doing a great job. I'd love to find out others approaches and methods.

I know that X does a lot of cabeling jobs. I'd be interested to see what everyones offering, pricing, annual inspection, things like that
 
Re: Cable Talk

Two questions:

1. I have the BMP on support systems. Is there any text out there that focuses on the topic? Anything that is the tree support systems equivalent of Gilman's Illustrated Guide to Pruning?

2. In the Sherrill catalogue, they say that static systems are for crotches with included bark, and dynamic systems are for crotches without included bark. Is this a standard that practitioners follow, or not?
 
Re: Cable Talk

thumb, if you read the bmps, what questions occurred to you? I agree they overspec in many cases. they have to avoid underspeccing, but err too far the other way imo.

ansi standards will be revised again soon. contact your org rep with suggested changes. bmp revision will follow.

through fasteners like rigguys are ansi-compliant. I switched to wedge grips due to arthritis, and the time factor

imo, spec static wherever movement will worsen a defect, which is most cases.

if you have comments about anything in http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/9cadda7d#/9cadda7d/30 or page 34 here http://www.treecareindustry.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_Jan_09.pdf or p 13 here http://www.treecareindustry.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_Jan_09.pdf fire away.
 
Re: Cable Talk

Well, I should re-read the BMP.

Here's the deal though...I read the BMP on pruning and thought, "Ok, I get the general ideas, but I still don't know how to go out there and do it on a specific tree." When I read Gilman's pruning text, it all clicked, and I've been working my butt off on our campus trees ever since, and loving it. Not saying I'm an expert on pruning now just because I read Gilman's book, but I know enough now to get started, to make progress...

I just wish there was something out there on cabling that I could study that would give me the confidence to go out there and git 'r dun on my campus.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I've got little oversight when it comes to caring for the trees on the campus where I work. This is not a positive situation. I'd rather be working under someone that I can learn from day in/day out. But it's where I am, so I'm doing the best with the situation.

And when it comes to cabling, we have a nice collection of trees - old oaks, hemlocks, maples, even a 25 ft. tall/85 year old Hinoki cypress, many of which need some supplemental support.

But I don't want to be that climbing ignoramus that goes up and puts hardware in a tree that's going to hurt it somewhere down the road because I don't really know what I'm doing.

Hiring a consultant is an option, but there are not a lot in the area, and convincing the powers that be in the campus bureaucracy that paying for one, that tree care is worth our time and money, is a challenge already. I'm lucky to have a rope and saddle at the moment...

Hence the begging for treebuzz help...

Back to reading the BMP for the time being. I'm going to read over the linked articles during my lunch break tomorrow. I'll ask specifics when they come...And I'll start taking pictures of particular trees if you gentlemen and ladies don't mind lending your knowledge...
 
Re: Cable Talk

Thumb,

Besides what you might learn here take some time to use Google for some research. Be cautious of course. When it comes to cabling/bracing there is a lot of wrong information.

One good way to understand trees and support systems is to get hold of the 'Tree Structures and Mechanics' compendium. That was THE best conference that I have ever attended! When you understand how trees stay up and why they fall down you'll have a better idea of how to give a little aid here and there.
 
Re: Cable Talk

"And when it comes to cabling, we have a nice collection of trees - old oaks, hemlocks, maples, even a 25 ft. tall/85 year old Hinoki cypress, many of which need some supplemental support. I'll start taking pictures of particular trees"

good idea.

bmps get revised after the ansi revises, which i think is 2013
 
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