Bandits new dynamic winch system

flyingsquirrel25

flyingsquirrel25

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
South East, PA
I am alomost sold on a 15" bandit but between the time I demoed the machine a little over a month ago and now they have changed the winch package on their chippers. The new 15xps are coming off the line with what they are calling a dynamic winch. The salesman assured me it is just as effective as the old system (he could barely get that to work good). I have attached photos of the operator station that he provided. I was wondering if anyone on the buzz has one of these new machines and could shed some light on its effectiveness. Especially compared to the old style.
The main reason I ask is he can't provide me with a machine to look at and put hands on until TCIA. With a 6-8 week build time we would be looking mid January delivery And I'm getting tired of struggling with the 10" wonder.

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BB makes a fine chipper but their winch set up is really lame- You can't winch in while the feed wheels are turning so that creates much wasted time yet does nothing to increase safety. It also makes it more difficult to get the winched stem under the feed wheels for feeding. A winch that winches in while the machine is chipping is absolutely key.

A rep told me the new system allows you to run the feed wheels and the winch simultaneously for a few seconds, presumably to make getting the stem under the feed wheel easier. If I am correctly describing the new winch system it still sounds pretty flawed.
 
cory said:
BB makes a fine chipper but their winch set up is really lame- You can't winch in while the feed wheels are turning so that creates much wasted time yet does nothing to increase safety. It also makes it more difficult to get the winched stem under the feed wheels for feeding. A winch that winches in while the machine is chipping is absolutely key.

A rep told me the new system allows you to run the feed wheels and the winch simultaneously for a few seconds, presumably to make getting the stem under the feed wheel easier. If I am correctly describing the new winch system it still sounds pretty flawed.
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I actually like the old system due to the fact you could winch up, feed, and winch up again and feed. With This new style of winch if the hook is not docked and tight the feed does not work unless the 3 second bypass is used. It sounds like a supreme waste of time winching in to dock the cable every time you use it. @cory Im assuming you have not run the new set up?
 
I haven't used the new system. I have the current system which is pathetic.

I guess it is called dynamic because for 3 seconds it works properly.
 
Morbark has a sweet winch, winch and feed at the same time.

I remember watching my salesman use the BB winch during the machine demo, I noticed he struggled getting the stem under the feed wheels, I figured he was just inexperienced, turns out he was using the BB winch as designed and it sucks. Lotta BB users say the winch is fine, you just have to get used to it. There's no getting used to wasting time while you are chipping one stem you can't winch in the next one until the first one is done being chipped.
 
Also, if you are chipping something extra bushy such that the feed wheels could use a little extra help sucking it in, the winch is useless because it won't winch in while feed wheels are turning. With the morbark system you can winch in a bit while the feed wheels are crushing and pulling and get past the 'difficult section' of a stem that is fighting back.
 
cory said:
Morbark has a sweet winch, winch and feed at the same time.

I remember watching my salesman use the BB winch during the machine demo, I noticed he struggled getting the stem under the feed wheels, I figured he was just inexperienced, turns out he was using the BB winch as designed and it sucks. Lotta BB users say the winch is fine, you just have to get used to it. There's no getting used to wasting time while you are chipping one stem you can't winch in the next one until the first one is done being chipped.
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I just spent the last month and a half demoing the morbark and bandit 12" machines and their 15" counterparts. Of the 5 machines run The bandits out chipped the morbark on all accounts except the 15" Morbark. But that machine weighed in at 9700 pounds with 174 hp. It's kinda tough to beat (and tow) that. But the 130 gas on the 1390 was real close. The 12" morbark winch I used yesterday was nothing special, was slightly disappointed in the power and flexibility of the mounting. I ended up feeding with the mini so as not to break something. With practice and training the BB winch (old style) can be very effective, once you get the salesman out of the way. My bandit sales guy stepped back and watched as two guys stuffed spruce tops in and made 16 yards of chip in less than 45 min.
 
cory said:
Also, if you are chipping something extra bushy such that the feed wheels could use a little extra help sucking it in, the winch is useless because it won't winch in while feed wheels are turning. With the morbark system you can winch in a bit while the feed wheels are crushing and pulling and get past the 'difficult section' of a stem that is fighting back.
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If you use the winch selector kind of as your auto feed and hold the winch lever you will find the bandit will apply that extra assistance. It kinda lifts the piece up and then it drops down as it feeds.
 
cory said:
There's no getting used to wasting time while you are chipping one stem you can't winch in the next one until the first one is done being chipped.
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So you would prefer to have the winch line out, slacked, running to the next branch to be winched while brush is being chipped? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how one of Rick's tree guys was killed? I remember seeing the story about how the line got sucked in to the drum and the snap on the line with through his helmet and killed him. I think another person at the same time was badly injured too. Our policy is to only chip one branch at a time for this reason. The winch line should be sucked in tight either on the stem or hooked to the storage spot during chipping.
 
It's been a while since I used a bandit... One thing I did notice on the pictures is there seems to be a flow control valve on the winch hydro's.. This would suggest to me that you can control the speed of the winch, if so that would be a huge plus! Can't say more than that, as Bandit winches are they only ones I've ever used..
 
AmericanArborist said:
So you would prefer to have the winch line out, slacked, running to the next branch to be winched while brush is being chipped? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how one of Rick's tree guys was killed? I remember seeing the story about how the line got sucked in to the drum and the snap on the line with through his helmet and killed him. I think another person at the same time was badly injured too. Our policy is to only chip one branch at a time for this reason. The winch line should be sucked in tight either on the stem or hooked to the storage spot during chipping.
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I believe you are correct with the ricks incident. And I agree completely that the cable needs to be docked or tight when chipping. And I'm pretty sure that's what Cory is talking about. You can't have loose rope sitting on the brush. But my issue is with this new winch to feed brush it must be docked. It can't even be on the stem to assist unless you want to chip 3 seconds at a time. Or at least this is how it is being explained.
 
evo said:
there seems to be a flow control valve on the winch hydro's.. This would suggest to me that you can control the speed of the winch,
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Our Morbark M15R has the hydro flow control, so you can adjust the speed of the feed wheels. And just like you correctly surmised, it lets you adjust winch speed as well. Usually we winch full speed, but when it's a hard pull, turn it down and get more oomph.
 
I agree that having the winch cable out in the work area anywhere near brush that is being chipped is not a good idea. I won't allow it on our jobs. We use the old BB winch system on an 1890. I think it works fine.
 
We would winch the butt against the Bb feed rollers until the piece was lifted off the ground a bit or got some flex in the stem. Switch to feed rollers, and work fed easily, as I recall. Once it's in the feed rollers, so the feed, unhook the winch, wind it in or pull it up to the winch operator, out of the danger zone.
 
southsoundtree said:
We would winch the butt against the Bb feed rollers until the piece was lifted off the ground a bit or got some flex in the stem. Switch to feed rollers, and work fed easily, as I recall. Once it's in the feed rollers, so the feed, unhook the winch, wind it in or pull it up to the winch operator, out of the danger zone.
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Thats how we operate as well. Suck it right up, sometimes lifting the tips up 6-8 feet off the ground and then just let the feed wheels take over.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. Without anyone being able to provide first hand operational knowledge of this new system I went ahead and bought the unit the dealer had in stock with the tried and true bandit winch. I've had it just about two weeks and am loving it... minus a couple little snafus (exhaust fell off second day and screw fell out of the throttle control mid 5th day). I'll let someone else try that new winch out ! Thanks again for all of your input.
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