ATC type descender

Evan Sussman

Evan Sussman

Participating member
Location
Stanwood, WA
Has anyone used this type of descender for tree work? It's about as compact as a compact 8 but it doesn't appear to twist rope. It's a rock climbing/caving tool originally and there are a few variations. I'm holding in my hand the Black Diamond ATC-XP version. I picked it both for the variable friction, and because of that modified side it appeared it would soften the bend. That bend is my biggest concern with using this type of tool.

Any experience out there? I searched, and was surprised no one had mentioned it. It seems to me if it can be used with out wearing the rope too quickly cause of the bend it would be awesome. I really liked about the F8 that I could descend full throttle without concern for my hitch, but the hockles were driving my nuts.

http://www.rei.com/product/831138/black-diamond-atc-xp-belay-device
 
You can descend as fast as you dare on a ATC with no worries about rope/hardware damage. You might find arbo ropes dont flow so smooth through it though. Like a figure eight you have to hold on or it will let you go. Unlike a figure 8 it wont hockle your ropes.

In all my years of rock climbing I never once heard someone mention 'bend radius' its not a concern to climbers (rock). There has never been an instance of an ATC causing rope failure (so much that i know) so I wouldnt worry bout it. People have rappelled on them for decades in pretty much every imaginable environment.
 
I've been puzzled why arbos haven't incorporated ATC-type descenders rather than sticking with 8's. Like Bonner says, some arbo ropes might not flow with some descenders but there are some good combos especially now that we have smaller diameter ropes.
 
Thanks guys, I'm still figuring out how to make SRT efficient for myself, so I'm mainly talking about doubled for now, though I'd think with a rope wrench it would be similar.

Have you found otherwise AJ?

Tom, when my friends showed it to me after I moved to WA (where there is good rock climbing as opposed to Maui where there isn't much) I was quite surprised that none of the arborist supplies carry them, to my knowledge. I'm guessing that's why most people don't use them, they don't know about them.

Nick, That's a good point on rope size. I bought it in person and it appeared that it would work with 13mm rope, however when I read that listing yesterday as I posted it said up to 11.5mm I think. Hmm. I'm just getting into the pleasures of a bigger rope, and being easier on my hands. It's definitely gonna be close, if it does fit...
 
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Thanks guys, I'm still figuring out how to make SRT efficient for myself, so I'm mainly talking about doubled for now, though I'd think with a rope wrench it would be similar.

Have you found otherwise AJ?

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Hitch descent is so smooth on the wrench I never considered adding another device below the wrench. If I have a long rappel out of a tall tree I usually use a Grigri. It is interesting though, a hitch used on a rope wrench rappel will have much less friction heat than a Grigri.
-AJ
 
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Thanks guys, I'm still figuring out how to make SRT efficient for myself, so I'm mainly talking about doubled for now, though I'd think with a rope wrench it would be similar.

Have you found otherwise AJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hitch descent is so smooth on the wrench I never considered adding another device below the wrench. If I have a long rappel out of a tall tree I usually use a Grigri. It is interesting though, a hitch used on a rope wrench rappel will have much less friction heat than a Grigri.
-AJ

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Interesting it is. I got nothing...
 
I bought one, returned it after one use. Arb ropes are to large. descent was slow. Unless there is one made for 1/2in rope i don't think they work very well for us.
 
I think the perfect Arbo ATC would be the OMEGA Pacific Super Belay Gadget or SBG Belay Device.

Look at the picture for some of the various uses. Also check out Storrick for some more info.

"Technical Details

...50 mm. long, 44 mm. wide, 63 mm. high, and weighs 56 g. The slots are 39 mm. long and 18 mm. wide. ..."

With 39x19mm slots you shouldn't have a problem running 1/2" line. Additionally the rigid stem will alleviate some of the concerns with 1/2" lines. The versatility of being able to use it like a figure-8 or an ATC style tube is cool to.

My experience has also been that Omega makes quality equipment.

http://mountaintools.com/cat/rclimb/belayrap/omegasbg2.htm

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Belay/BelayTubePages/BelayTube0755.html
 

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Everyone should take the time and plod through EVERY page of Storrick's site. Seeing the history and evolution of climbing gear gives a better understanding of how tools and rope interact.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the perfect Arbo ATC would be the OMEGA Pacific Super Belay Gadget or SBG Belay Device.

Look at the picture for some of the various uses. Also check out Storrick for some more info.

"Technical Details

...50 mm. long, 44 mm. wide, 63 mm. high, and weighs 56 g. The slots are 39 mm. long and 18 mm. wide. ..."

With 39x19mm slots you shouldn't have a problem running 1/2" line. Additionally the rigid stem will alleviate some of the concerns with 1/2" lines. The versatility of being able to use it like a figure-8 or an ATC style tube is cool to.

My experience has also been that Omega makes quality equipment.

http://mountaintools.com/cat/rclimb/belayrap/omegasbg2.htm

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Belay/BelayTubePages/BelayTube0755.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Good research as usual dude. I'm going to grab one off Amazon. Don't let me forget to post how it runs on 12mm.
 
I saw that. I'm not worried about an additional mm. I just don't want to try running 12mm through one with tight corners for a 8-9 spec.

I'm not saying it's right and everyone should run things that are out of the manufacturers spec. Just that it's within my comfort zone.
 
Hi Adam, first post here. Have you considered using a rappel ring as a stitch plate? It seems like a light, simple, and cheap way to go about things. I know black diamond (rock climbing manufacturers) consider using their figure 8 inappropriate as a belay device for a lead climber when used in its traditional manner but do consider it appropriate to belay a leader by passing a bight of the climb line through the SMALL ring, clipping it to the belay beiner and using it like an old school stitch plate. which would indicate that using it in this manner would produce MORE friction than in its normal "mode". It seems to me that a rappel ring is about the same size as the small ring on a figure 8. My only concern would be the potential for heat buildup on such a small ring. I dont see any reason it would twist up your ropes though. Pretty long first post huh. Have got a lot of good info/ideas from you guys.(thank you) hopefully I'll be able to contribute a bit every now and then.
 
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