Art Positioner & wire core

[JeffGu]

...if I'm using a 28in-30in e2e, what is the shortest hitch someone can use?

I use 26" E2E cords in 9mm and a Distel Hitch for a compact setup. 28" and 10mm cord should give you a short, compact hitch. With 8mm cord (lanyard adjuster) a 24" E2E and Distel gives a very nice, short hitch.

 

[123Craig]

I had an ART Positioner for a brief time and didn't like the idea of replacing cams, so sold it to a friend who really liked it... unfortunetly, it didn't have the cam for 5/8" lanyards, so I never got to try it on my homebrew wirecore fliplines. Really would have liked to try it, because I seriously doubt if they would cause any wear to the cams.

With all other types of adjusters that I have tried... they grab instantly and very tightly. There's an interesting characteristic to the air hose sheath that if you shock load the flipline, the adjuster slips quite slowly and grabs again right away. Some of mine are several years old, and there's no wear on any of the adjusters like I see on the rope lanyards. I'm still using a prototype that is more than ten years old, when I need a fairly long one. It's about 16' long, so doesn't get used all that much, but doesn't look much different than when I made it.

Very experimental and I'm not going to recommend making your own fliplines because, well... you know what the response will be. I can tell you that I have never had any issues with them and neither have the couple of friends I've made them for. You can wash tree sap and pitch off them with any solvent you want to use, because the sheath doesn't seem to be the least affected by any of them. I quite often use either WD-40 or gasoline.

View attachment 52937

Maybe I'll look for a used ART Positioner and make one with it. I believe they still make a cam for use with a 5/8" diameter line, don't they?

Really love the idea of using hose around the flipline (why does it have to be rope?!) - the thing that most attracts me is the minimal (if even any?!) wear on the flipline cover.

However, I have to have my flipline release under tension... It's just something I love... And apart from the fact that the AP2 is slipping on me a bit right now - I still love it, and would resent going back to a rope grab.

I was thinking of maybe trying something more drastic on the cam of the AP2 like grinding grooves into it, or even trying to get some additional metal welded onto it here and there... Though I'm most definitely no metal working expert (I'd ask someone else to weld if I was going that way). What does anyone think?

As far as I'm aware - there is no AP2 cam for 5/8" lanyards.

 

[Jehinten]

@JeffGu i really like that lanyard as well. and I think that you could purchase a commercially made lanyard, cut the tail off and replace the rope with air hose, then make a new stopper for it. This way the life support snap would still be commercially made and tested. Granted it would increase the cost a good bit. This of course assumes that you have an interest in making some for other climbers.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

I thought there was a 5/8ths version at one point as well..
I don't think it would be hard to accomplish with a steady hand & the correct dremel attatchment.. maybe even a small 16mn flap wheel.. i think that would give the most uniform removal.

Now, way back when, i had a purple petzl micrograb.. what i don't remember is the grab being able to freely slide down the line when holding it but it's body.. Now that i have a few of these devices, i notice they all do it (freely slide with no weight).. AP2, Yoke Grab, etc..

Is there any lanyard device that doesn't act like this? One that grabs without depending on my body weight, or doesn't depend on having weight on the handle or attachment point?

For example, grab it by the bottom & you'll see it slides both forward & backward, but as soon as you do that with the attachment point it grabs. If i take a device like my ropeman or ct roll n' lock & do this, those things lock right up no matter what.. It's the one thing i didn't like at first with the AP2 & the only reason i went back to a more traditional style like the Yoke thinking it would grab without weight..

I figured it might have to do with spring tension so took the AP2's cam spring & tried bending against it's tension. It created a little more drag without body weight but nothing like the rope grabs that just automatically lock..

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[JeffGu]

Yeah, the springs on most of them are a little weak... I usually have to increase the tension a little. With the cable type springs, it's a matter of loosening it up and shortening it to increase tension, lengthen it to decrease. With the compression spring type, you gotta remove it and stretch it out a bit to increase it.

That was another bonus I found with air hose sheath on the fliplines... most of the adjusters won't just slide down it with its own weight. I actually had to decrease spring tension a little on the ones I had been using on rope lanyards. I've been asked if the hose compresses and slides on the cable. No, the adjusters compress the space in there and grab it fine... shock loading the flipline it will give a little movement, but it grabs quickly (dropping 300 lb. sled about 3 feet). I use 1/4" stainless steel cable, and I put a layer of shrink tube over it during construction to eat up the space between the cable and the hose.

By the way, I have indeed pulled two of these and an old commercially made one. I'm not sure why people think you can't crimp your own cables. Might want to stay away from ziplines if you're worried about it. The way I did it, the commercial one failed long before mine did. Not real scientific, since the commercial one was used, but the swaged sleeves work very well when you use three or four of them. Leaves the first foot of each end very stiff, but that makes it easier to flip. They are, however, quite heavy.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

So no idea why the rope man grabs with no weight? It's not a design difference or something? Basically just the spring setup determines this?

Also are you saying that in the cable ones, if you can adjust it you can make it so it will grab under no load..

What about the newer black Petzl Micrograb..? Does that still slide?

I'm just curious as to what feature to look for in a lanyard adjuster that locks up with no weight needed..

This is a concern to me as I've not encountered a weightless event to test my theory.. & don't plan to.. if you catch my drift..

Also.. i think the rope man & roll n' lock have the potiential to make nifty little lanyard adjusters if you were trying to stay in a small package with 8 or 10mm lanyard setup.. did i just say nifty? Yeah.. nifty, albeit wicked jumpy..

Yall know what I'm talking about when i voice the concern about being weightless on a adjuster that needs weight to grab:



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[JeffGu]

The only adjusters I can use on the fliplines are the ones that work on 5/8" line because that's the outside diameter of the hose. Most of them stay put, I believe, because the hose kind of puffs up a tad when it's not under tension. Since it's not a braided rope sheath, there's more friction.

On rope lanyards, I just adjust the spring tension for the rope I'm using to minimize it moving when the lanyard is not under tension. I don't think there's anything else you can do, other than use a slightly fatter rope. The regular rope grab adjusters all seem to work fine, I have half a dozen different makes/models. Some are too heavy, some of them have the lever too high up off the rope, some have better springs, etc. but that's about all the difference I can tell. The CMI one is the one I like the best, of those things. CMI Ropewalker I think it's called. That thing works pretty good on everything I've used it on.