Armillaria and Carya glabra or Carya cordiformis
- Thread starter highlife
- Start date
This list may help you.
http://www.mastergardeners.org/pdf/Armillaria-list-2008-06-16.pdf
There is no effective treatment for Armillaria, though a few here would argue otherwise.
jomoco
http://www.mastergardeners.org/pdf/Armillaria-list-2008-06-16.pdf
There is no effective treatment for Armillaria, though a few here would argue otherwise.
jomoco
I've often pondered whether depriving Armillaria of the darkness it needs to reproduce via artificial UV lighting at night would help control it's spread?
Sorta like solarization is used to kill nematodes in the upper layers of soil?
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74145.html
jomoco
Sorta like solarization is used to kill nematodes in the upper layers of soil?
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74145.html
jomoco
Certainly wouldn't hurt.
I prefer a more positive scientific route myself, like actually determining if indeed the tree has an Armillaria infection?
I do this by taking an actual sample of the suspected root/ trunk or mushroom, and taking it to my local plant pathology lab for testing. Then letting that factual evidence determine my next step after consulting the client.
Shooting in the dark and guessing about what's going on with the tree is no good for you or your client. You need to back your recommendations with facts to the highest degree possible IMO.
I took what I thought was a trunk sample of a Phytopthera(SOD) infection from an oak to the lab, only to learn that it was Gold Spotted Oak Borer gallery! A bug, not a fungus at all.
jomoco
I prefer a more positive scientific route myself, like actually determining if indeed the tree has an Armillaria infection?
I do this by taking an actual sample of the suspected root/ trunk or mushroom, and taking it to my local plant pathology lab for testing. Then letting that factual evidence determine my next step after consulting the client.
Shooting in the dark and guessing about what's going on with the tree is no good for you or your client. You need to back your recommendations with facts to the highest degree possible IMO.
I took what I thought was a trunk sample of a Phytopthera(SOD) infection from an oak to the lab, only to learn that it was Gold Spotted Oak Borer gallery! A bug, not a fungus at all.
jomoco
- Location
- Over Your Head
Increasing the vitality of a tree will not stop the spread of Armillaria. At best you will just delay the inevitable.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Exposing the infected area is the best treatment
Nice slight of hand Guy, but I could swear this post was asking for advice on treating Armillaria not Crown Gall in Walnut trees.
I take it that you are recommending the CG treatment for Armillaria infected trees?
Please explain?
jomoco
I take it that you are recommending the CG treatment for Armillaria infected trees?
Please explain?
jomoco
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Exposing the infected area is the best treatment for Armillaria per Sinclair. Not always needed to try cauterization; exposure alone can stop it from spreading. nothing inevitable about it.
Funny how every PhD plant pathologist I've read on the many strains of A. mellea recommend removal because there's no hard data backing up the many treatments recommended by arborists being effective, period.
http://www.mortonarb.org/tree-plant-advice/article/16878/armillaria-root-rot-and-native-oaks.html
Why do you think you know more about Armillaria than these experts on plant pathology Guy?
What recourse will you have when these seemingly healthy trees fall over and do damage to a client's home or family?
jomoco
http://www.mortonarb.org/tree-plant-advice/article/16878/armillaria-root-rot-and-native-oaks.html
Why do you think you know more about Armillaria than these experts on plant pathology Guy?
What recourse will you have when these seemingly healthy trees fall over and do damage to a client's home or family?
jomoco
- Location
- Over Your Head
[ QUOTE ]
Exposing the infected area is the best treatment for Armillaria per Sinclair. Not always needed to try cauterization; exposure alone can stop it from spreading. nothing inevitable about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have ANY hard evidence to back this up?
Exposing the infected area is the best treatment for Armillaria per Sinclair. Not always needed to try cauterization; exposure alone can stop it from spreading. nothing inevitable about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have ANY hard evidence to back this up?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
jeez guys i cited sinclair; see page329; "The pathogen ceases growth in tissues thus exposed"
Hard evidence, yeah, hard oak woundwood, where mycelia once covered. Where's YOUR hard evidence that spread cannot be stopped? hypocritical hoohah, demanding data whilst providing none.
and jon for the umpteenth time, those pathologists working for the govt have 0 risk tolerance because the govt has all the money and does not want to get sued. So like privately held tree companies like bartlett, recommendations coming out of their labs do not pertain to others who fear litigation less.
just wasted the time reading that blurb; first paragraph ended in a lie...er, inaccuracy: "Unfortunately, the trees are first killed in the process." But some wood is recycled by Armillaria growing in and decaying oak wood while the tree is still alive.
Don't believe everything you read.
Hard evidence, yeah, hard oak woundwood, where mycelia once covered. Where's YOUR hard evidence that spread cannot be stopped? hypocritical hoohah, demanding data whilst providing none.
and jon for the umpteenth time, those pathologists working for the govt have 0 risk tolerance because the govt has all the money and does not want to get sued. So like privately held tree companies like bartlett, recommendations coming out of their labs do not pertain to others who fear litigation less.
just wasted the time reading that blurb; first paragraph ended in a lie...er, inaccuracy: "Unfortunately, the trees are first killed in the process." But some wood is recycled by Armillaria growing in and decaying oak wood while the tree is still alive.
Don't believe everything you read.
- Location
- NW Chicago subburbs, Illinois
You might want to do a resistograph, or a poor man's resistograph (drill with an ear plug) to check the extent of the decay. Make sure you sanitize the bit between sites. Drill at least in 8 places around the stem and flare covering all cardinal directions and spaces in between. If it's not too bad you may want to look into a paclobutrazol treatment. This will encourage root growth and it also has some fungicidal activities.
Is the tree declining? Are there targets? Always consider risk of failure, but check to see how bad it is first.
Is the tree declining? Are there targets? Always consider risk of failure, but check to see how bad it is first.
Hepting says "shoestring rot is as cosmopolitan on Carya as it is on most hardwoods, but it is not aggressive except on weakened trees".
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Drilling finds interior decay. Armillaria spreads from the outside in. You might want to avoid drilling and get your hands on the tree instead and remove dead tissue to find the extent of the infection, if any.
Sanitizing the bit between drillings is like wearing a condom between youknowwhatting. The damage is done by breaking the barrier with every penetration.
Good point re hepting. The panic over this tree associate is most unscientific. Assuming we can assess tree problems through mechanical testing primarily is, in the words of Frank Rinn, "woodoo".
Sanitizing the bit between drillings is like wearing a condom between youknowwhatting. The damage is done by breaking the barrier with every penetration.
Good point re hepting. The panic over this tree associate is most unscientific. Assuming we can assess tree problems through mechanical testing primarily is, in the words of Frank Rinn, "woodoo".
- Location
- NW Chicago subburbs, Illinois
[ QUOTE ]
Drilling finds interior decay. Armillaria spreads from the outside in. You might want to avoid drilling and get your hands on the tree instead and remove dead tissue to find the extent of the infection, if any.
Sanitizing the bit between drillings is like wearing a condom between youknowwhatting. The damage is done by breaking the barrier with every penetration.
Good point re hepting. The panic over this tree associate is most unscientific. Assuming we can assess tree problems through mechanical testing primarily is, in the words of Frank Rinn, "woodoo".
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting sanitation analogy. But a barrier can be broken without disease development. You have to have a pathogen to get disease. If the drill bit has a pathogen on it, and you drill into the tree, you just introduced the pathogen. So if one buttress root is showing symptoms of disease, it would be a bad idea to not sanitize when you drill into non-symptomatic roots, because at the moment they're healthy.
If you had an infected cut on your leg, would you wipe that cut and then touch a cut on your arm? Probably not, because you don't want to spread the infection, even though the host is already diseased.
You're a huge advocate of cutting or cleaning out decay from infected areas on trees. I'm interested in reading some peer-reviewed literature on this technique, would you pass along some names and publications?
Drilling finds interior decay. Armillaria spreads from the outside in. You might want to avoid drilling and get your hands on the tree instead and remove dead tissue to find the extent of the infection, if any.
Sanitizing the bit between drillings is like wearing a condom between youknowwhatting. The damage is done by breaking the barrier with every penetration.
Good point re hepting. The panic over this tree associate is most unscientific. Assuming we can assess tree problems through mechanical testing primarily is, in the words of Frank Rinn, "woodoo".
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting sanitation analogy. But a barrier can be broken without disease development. You have to have a pathogen to get disease. If the drill bit has a pathogen on it, and you drill into the tree, you just introduced the pathogen. So if one buttress root is showing symptoms of disease, it would be a bad idea to not sanitize when you drill into non-symptomatic roots, because at the moment they're healthy.
If you had an infected cut on your leg, would you wipe that cut and then touch a cut on your arm? Probably not, because you don't want to spread the infection, even though the host is already diseased.
You're a huge advocate of cutting or cleaning out decay from infected areas on trees. I'm interested in reading some peer-reviewed literature on this technique, would you pass along some names and publications?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Cleaning the bit in between might be good. Leaving the drill in the toolbox until it is needed might be better.
Armillaria spreads from the outside in. You might want to avoid drilling and get your hands on the tree instead
Several articles on cleaning wounds reviewed by peers. (those count too btw) no noe pays for research on this so not so much peer-reviewed. here is one.
cleaning out decay is nothing new, and if quantity of inoculum present matters then it speaks for itself.
Several articles on cleaning wounds reviewed by peers. (those count too btw) no noe pays for research on this so not so much peer-reviewed. here is one.
cleaning out decay is nothing new, and if quantity of inoculum present matters then it speaks for itself.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
- Location
- NW Chicago subburbs, Illinois
[ QUOTE ]
Cleaning the bit in between might be good. Leaving the drill in the toolbox until it is needed might be better.
Armillaria spreads from the outside in. You might want to avoid drilling and get your hands on the tree instead
Several articles on cleaning wounds reviewed by peers. (those count too btw) no noe pays for research on this so not so much peer-reviewed. here is one.
cleaning out decay is nothing new, and if quantity of inoculum present matters then it speaks for itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that that's a neat article about Agrobacterium, but the problem is that you can't apply a bacteria-focused article and say it works the same as for fungi. Plus, often times Agrobacterium isn't still alive in the plant after it infects. It usually injects its genetic material into host cells (which program the plant cells to over-produce cells), dies, and then the host plant's cells just keep replicating. Agrobacterium is more like cancer than a "normal" infection.
Do you know any articles that cover fungi?
Cleaning the bit in between might be good. Leaving the drill in the toolbox until it is needed might be better.
Several articles on cleaning wounds reviewed by peers. (those count too btw) no noe pays for research on this so not so much peer-reviewed. here is one.
cleaning out decay is nothing new, and if quantity of inoculum present matters then it speaks for itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that that's a neat article about Agrobacterium, but the problem is that you can't apply a bacteria-focused article and say it works the same as for fungi. Plus, often times Agrobacterium isn't still alive in the plant after it infects. It usually injects its genetic material into host cells (which program the plant cells to over-produce cells), dies, and then the host plant's cells just keep replicating. Agrobacterium is more like cancer than a "normal" infection.
Do you know any articles that cover fungi?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Here's one. Now, do you have references indicating that cleaning out decay is harmful to trees?
O and there are several studies demonstrating that drilling can advance the spread of decay, so prescribing that practice routinely seems questionable. Arbor Cop: "Put down the drill, Codit".
"You have to have a pathogen to get disease." But you do not need a pathogen to spread damage, dysfunction, or dessication, those other D's that do kill wood tissue.
O and there are several studies demonstrating that drilling can advance the spread of decay, so prescribing that practice routinely seems questionable. Arbor Cop: "Put down the drill, Codit".
"You have to have a pathogen to get disease." But you do not need a pathogen to spread damage, dysfunction, or dessication, those other D's that do kill wood tissue.
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