Anyone seen this felling cut?

In the OP's pic, Looks like they used an angle on the snipe to turn the tree, and looks like it worked from the look of the position..
you can see from the second pic of GB, how the snipe acts as a back stop as all that weight pushes back at the butt..
 
Thanks to everyone for all the input. But now I'm even more confused. Would someone tell me exactly what "the snipe" is? I read the thread posted by TreeLogic and it made me even more confused. Beranek's explanation is not at all clear (sorry Gerry).

And can anyone tell me how much advantage there is to this technique (I guess it is called a box face?) vs. just a plain old notch, especially a Humbolt or "open face", where the stump would slide off the bottom and you have excellent hinging? It seems like it would be really, really hard to make the vertical cut at the end of the box and have it all square up, and it seems from the pictures (including the one I posted) that users of this "box face" still cut an angled face on the bottom part of the box anyway. Is it that much more advantageous than a "V" shaped notch?
 
I believe the angled cut at the bottom is what is called the snipe. As a top drops sometimes it can fall below the height of the hinge and the butt can get hung up on the stump for a second. The snipe can make the butt slide off the stump more easily. Though it sounds like it can be used to turn a falling spar too, if cut wider at one corner than the other.

The block portion doesn't have to be accurately bored out. It can be made by making the bottom and top cuts of the face not meet up intentionally. Maybe leave 6" between them and then sledge the block out with a maul. This leaves a lot more flexible hinge wood and gives more control before the face closes.

No expert here, just the way I understand it, so please set me straight if I'm wrong with any of this.
 
The block is a much smaller piece of material to have to remove and get rid of. Less waste on the piece as well. The horizontal cuts are easier to make on a large tree. As mentioned before the bore can be started with a smaller saw with a short bar. That's like a pilot hole for the long bar. The "snipe" is the angled face. It projects the butt in the direction you want it to go at the point in the trunk's fall when you want the hinge would to release. Think of it as a ramp the butt will slide down and in the direction you want it to go. Much alike to a humboldt but with much less material to cut and have to deal with.
 
Here's what Gerald Beranek said about it:

"For being such a small word volumes can be said about the snipe. As it is called when used in conjunction with the diagonal cut, humboldt style.

The snipe can be sawn partially into the stump and it can be sawn fully into the stump. It can be sawn shallow in angle and it can be steep in angle. The snipe can provide a square edge for the butt of the tree to break off the stump. and it can provide a ramp for the butt of a tree to slip off of the stump. When sawn off the butt of the tree,, the snipe is referred to as a scarf. And what can work for a snipe can work for a scarf too, but in opposite ways.

for the most part the snipe is used to get the butt of a tree off the stump and take lead in the fall. And this can make all the difference in saving a tree from breaking in a bad lay. Or more precisely where the butt has a long ways to reach the ground.

The snipe and scarf can alter the face opening to minor or major degrees. Often very subtlely for the most part, but even when that is the case it can still have pronounced effects in how a tree leaves its stump and lays out. In any case the exact effect that we want from the snipe is always going to be situation dependent and sometimes the true need for it is can be a debatable matter.

In a nutshell it's mechanics and timing,,, and a good imagination to foresee the possibilities in a trees fall. the mechanics of the felling cut can be understood more easily through demonstrations than by elaborating about it. Because it's all theory so much gets lost in translation."


So to answer my own question, I guess on a humboldt face the angled cut is a snipe, whereas on the traditional face the angled cut is a scarf.
 
I seen that pic with those guys felling the top 150 ft up an still 7 feet across yeee haaa as far as the different notches I guess what it comes down two is what works best for you
 
Thanks Tree Logic for the explanation and for posting Beranek's "definition" of snipe. Still seems like a non-definition to me. So I guess the benefits of this "block face" cut are a longer strap of hinge wood, and the fact that it is easier to cut horizontally vs. at an angle. Yet you then have to get the piece out. Much more work than a triangular face cut no matter how you slice it. I see that a longer hinge might hold longer, but isn't there still just as much risk of a bypass as with a triangular face cut?
 
Bypass is just as likely it seems. In big wood it seems easier to make horizontal cuts though.

After learning the intricacies of designing a face cut, back cut and hinge I'm much better at knowing where my fell is going to go...and when. In my early years I had no clue and was lucky...most of the time :eek::confused:

If I had a fall to make that was bigger than my saws I might consider doing something like this. But that isn't likely.
 
NGD said:
Block face. Gives longer hinge fiber. That guy seemed a little high for the backcut.
Click to expand...

NGD has it. By increasing the height of the hinge fiber, the fibers are more likely to bend. The snipe, or angled cut off the lower tip of the face is so the log "slips" off clean. With out the snipe I believe Gerry's ride would have been less "smooth"

It is an intresting technique, that can make the hinges of brittle fibers trees hold together longer. However, no hinge will hold once the faces meet. Well, unless the tree stops falling:)

I prefer to use it on storm damaged and/or trees leaning over 60 degrees with the top hung up in something else. Gives a nice slow "collapse" usually keeping both parts of tree attached to each other. That makes for easier winching/dragging to the chipper or a more stable wildlife habitat!

Tony
 
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