Any updates on the rope runner 2?

Hey Steve, I don't have a RR, would it not be possible to lock-off a Runner in a similar way you would a rack?
Having used rescue racks for a few years I know I would feel more secure on a Runner type multicender than a rack. As you know there are times when using a rack that you can't go "hand's free" like you can with a RR, BDB, etc. Of course that's where the redundancy of the belay comes in with the fire service. But if I messed up and went hands free for whatever reason I would much rather just be hanging on a RR than be "caught" by the belay.
 

Attachments

  • image.webp
    image.webp
    269.6 KB · Views: 91
  • image.webp
    image.webp
    412.4 KB · Views: 83
All you could really do is a stopper knot underneath it. You couldn't wrap the device because unlike a repel rack compression equals descent. Put a two person load on you then try to ascend up to create slack underneath the device to untie a knot? Nope. Your BDB picture. Bad juju to have something above that can slip and cause a uncontrolled descent. Not that a triple wrap prussic is gonna slip on a non rigging application but you know how the NFPA likes to what if everything. What if it slipped and came down to the top of your multicender. Free Fall.
 
Good points Steve. I didn't mean to imply that either of those pics could make the bone (or rr) NFPA compliant. I originally hypothetically questioned if a device like this could ever be NFPA rated, which of course would break the barrier for TRT's to use these devices for Treetop rescue.
If Nfpa rating happens at some point what will the change be? Will something like the RR need a locking mechanism or will tree rescue need to be addressed specifically under NFPA 1670.
I believe at this time there are 7 disciplines under 1670, would tree rescue need to become #8 or could it be addressed under Rope rescue.
I remember reading articles from FireRescue Magazine pertaining to Tree Rescue, yet there is no specific NFPA guidelines that I am aware of (subject to being wrong about that).
http://www.firerescuemagazine.com/a...rations/tools-techniques-for-tree-rescue.html
http://www.firerescuemagazine.com/a...-operations/how-to-perform-a-tree-rescue.html
 
The first picture looks like it is tied off with the tail. If so, it will not be able to slip from top activation.

What is it you don't like about the Petzl Id for a rescue situation?
 
DSMc said:
The first picture looks like it is tied off with the tail. If so, it will not be able to slip from top activation.

What is it you don't like about the Petzl Id for a rescue situation?
Click to expand...

Yes the first pic is tied off with the tail, I depressed the top arm to see how it reacts. The bone compressed and made it very difficult to untie the overhand above the bone.
It's not at all that I do not like the I'D, it's just nice to have options. I'Ds are allowed for the work climb at comps, I'm not sure but are they not allowed for aerial rescue at comps as well? If the I'D was the perfect device I'd imagine most ppl would be using them for the comps. For lateral movements they can be tricky, limb walking while maintaining control of the downrope like Petzl stipulates.
 
True, the Petzl I'D and its cousin, the Rig, are not currently the best for all-around tree climbing; but in the case of the I'D, it does check all the boxes for NFPA. The design of both are quite functional, though, and I believe Jared Abojena even successfully competed with the Rig. I used the Rig for awhile and thought it was a nice, easily mastered tool.
 
NFPA rating for 2 man loads is for 300# per man. With that, the host rope must be rated for min. 10k#.

I have only used the more common version with biner still connected to attach/detach. From what I understand, the slightly larger one that the biner must be opened to allow attach/detach is rated for 2man rescue. I did not see the stamping on it but I am going by what our rope rescue guy told me at firehouse training.

The new RIG is demonstrated by petzl for rope rescue. Though it only showed 1 man rescue. I don't like either as a stand alone. Crazy things can happen during actual rescues. Preparing for the "what if's" is smart. Prussiks do slip especially under 2man rescue loads, even single can. Properly manned 2 triple wrap prussiks works nice.
 
If a tripple wrap prussic slips on a 2 man load someone tied it wrong or used the prong sized cordage for the diameter of that specific rope. The slippage allowances are in the 1000lb area. The weight and redundancy regulations have changed recently.
 
DSMc, I agree, I have tried watching Jared's videos to learn how he used the Rig, but he's just to fast.
Again my original thought was would a device such as the RR ever obtain a NFPA rating.
What is actually acceptable according to NFPA and Tech Rescue is confusing. Here is an interesting link for those who are, eh, interested.
I am also gonna try to upload a powerpoint, slides 5,6 are particularly interesting touching on some equipment most likely used by all TRT's that is not NPFA rated.
http://itrsonline.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Kovach2005_ITRSPaper.pdf


Further explanation on General Use and Technical Use is provided in Annex A of NFPA 1983. “Rescue personnel can elect to use either Technical or General Use labeled equipment based on anticipated loads and acceptable safety margins as established by the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ). This choice should be based on the levels of operational capability of the organization. The AHJ should compile and evaluate information on the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the rope and equipment under consideration. For example, an organization at the operational level performing simple rescues might require the higher margin of safety offered by General Use equipment. The highly trained or specialized organization performing the more complicated rescue might benefit from the lighter weight of Technical Use equipment, but due to their level of training can maintain an acceptable level of safety and efficiency for the specified operation.”**
 

Attachments

Thanks Steve. I was gonna email those to you, but I guess you have them now. I'm gonna do a little more research and see if I can find more stuff from Mr. Kovach and possibly others with like information.
 
treebing said:
I will have to check but I believe that the NFPA requires the device to handle a two person load for a rescue and a dynamic two person load as well. It may have to undergo some design changes for that certification. or some clarity. I wouldn't feel comfortable with two 250 pound people on one runner. Or some changes made to the certification accommodate the device. One thing the runner is good at is having two devices operate on one line. So the rescue options are such that you should not need a two people on one device. simple use two devices on one rope. We are looking into the options.
Click to expand...

I would be very happy to demo a RR2 prototype for my department:-). Supplied with some recent findings concerning NFPA and use of equipment on TRT not rated, may be able to convince the AHJ that the RR2 could be a serviceable addition to the Tree Rescue cache.
The department I am with is forward thinking and a leader in this area. With The Rock Exotica name and being a rated device that would help. If the AHJ could be convinced that with proper training on the device the RR2 could play a role in a safe, expedient rescue if added to the cache it could serve as a model for other departments to follow.
 
Scottyrunner100 said:
I would be very happy to demo a RR2 prototype for my department:). Supplied with some recent findings concerning NFPA and use of equipment on TRT not rated, may be able to convince the AHJ that the RR2 could be a serviceable addition to the Tree Rescue cache.
The department I am with is forward thinking and a leader in this area. With The Rock Exotica name and being a rated device that would help. If the AHJ could be convinced that with proper training on the device the RR2 could play a role in a safe, expedient rescue if added to the cache it could serve as a model for other departments to follow.
Click to expand...

Steve would be great to demo for his area as well.
 
treebing said:
having dealt with various manufacturers over the last few years, I have learned to take their time estimates and double them. They all seem to work in a time vortex.
Click to expand...

Dang....could that mean instead of summer/fall, it could end up winter/spring 18?!
Also I have seen where some buzzers have mentioned they like the RR on 1/2 static line such as the NFPA G rated type, will the RR2 be the same? The BDB is a bit snug (although the XL version would probably work well), word is the RR is more accommodating with the fatter ropes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom