Advice sought...Got an offer that'll pay much more $$, but is a swap from 'tree surgeon' to'clearing land' :/

eyehearttrees

eyehearttrees

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Tampa-Area
tl;dr -- I have an opportunity to "ditch" my sole-proprietorship, residential 'tree surgery' company to partner with a very wealthy friend who wants to start a company with me in spring, the goal of which would be clearing land (in NH) for development. The $$$ would be awesome (off the bat, at least...), but I'm super hesitant for 2 reasons, #1 is I'm not even sure I'm OK with that type of work, and #2 I'm fearful-as-hell of how vulnerable such an "all-in" move could leave me, I don't have 50K in the bank to cushion myself if, 1 month into the venture, the market flips and the demand for land-clearing drops to zero...am also not ignorant to the fact that, once everything is setup, that I'm expandable as hell, I mean he is a friend but that doesn't change the fact that I'm of FAR more use to him for the creation/setup of the operations, than I am once things are up&running and any climber/sawyer could replace me..

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So I'm banging my head against a wall right now, haven't had to make such a consequential choice in ages, my friend always "had money" because he's a crazy-hard worker (had an epoxy-flooring company before we were 20), but when pot became legal in our homestate (MA) he did exceedingly well. I found this on facebook like a year ago, around the time I was "pimping myself" with my 'facebook company-page' showing-off climbing/rigging stuff. We spoke here&there through the past year (while we were highschool/college friends, we have not been friends in any real sense since then, as I live across the country in FL)

He has the $$, and his father-in-law is a developer, and (according to him) the need/demand for this is HUGE in that area*, so he proposed to me that he's starting a company in spring to clear land and wants me to partner, IE his $$ and work-ethic, to combine with my work-ethic + my knowledge of tree-stuff. I have little doubt that, in the first 6 months, that I'll make more-than I'd have made continuing my solo residential Tree Co.....but I've "overqualified to replace" myself before, and - when I consider the nature of this setup - I can't shake the feeling that, as soon as things are smooth, that I'm no longer needed (IE my value is more during the setup phase, after that he can replace me easily) This isn't to say "I expect him to replace me as soon as he can", but I'm not looking for charity either and, once things are setup & running and my contribution is mostly "in a bucket all day", at that point he&I both know I'm not deserving of partner-compensation anymore (whether he'd move to revoke it or not, or in how long, I could only guess - but at some point it'll be obvious as day to all of us that I'm just a guy holding a saw, and no longer a 'partner/creator'
[*I have not verified this current demand because I've zero doubt he has a perfect current understanding of it, I do greatly fear that this type of work could be tightly correlated to the housing market and, if so, that means it's a cyclical profession basically!]


There's also an "ethical"/comfort issue for me....I've been thinking of myself more&more as a "tree surgeon", someone who "intervenes" between people-and-trees since we live in a world where everyone thinks it's a good idea to plant Oaks/Maples/etc within a dozen feet of structures, so there's an inherent need for someone to come in and make things smooth between people//trees. I like this. Clearing land for the sake of development, on the other hand, I can't say I like -- in fact I may even dislike it (it's a contextual thing, but I'm well aware I'm not going to be able to have any say in that, the very nature of the business would be "clear natural lands, for human developments")

I dunno I am splitting down the middle on this one, the $$ is so alluring but I just keep finding myself thinking "if everything went awesome and you're making 2-3x what you'd have otherwise been making, you are still going to look at a climbing arborist with longing & think 'I wish *I* could do that'"!!!

Thanks a ton for any thoughts on this, I know it isn't planned to start til spring but planning begins much sooner and I do need to answer him promptly-enough on this (have been rolling it around since Sun evening, of course I get an offer like this during a week where I'm especially slammed/overscheduled and not in "long-term strategy mode" :p )
 
Tampa to New Hampshire eh? You’re about to be entering the wrong time of year for that. Screw it, cash rules, and driving in the snow is fun if you got the right tires. I’d think about it if I had a contract to protect me.
 
Another concern, which is hard to articulate, is that of workload....I've always been a workaholic but, now in my late 30's and seeing that the human body is not, in fact, invincible, I am taking great efforts to 'protect&conserve' my body, IE I take a day-off when I need one instead of just eating a handful of NSAIDS and fighting-through it (well, I'm taking the day-off instead more often now, am still working when I shouldn't but not remotely as much as I used to)

If I go do this with him, I have every reason to expect it will be a work-expectation of "as many hours as you can be awake for", my friend is the proverbial 'go getter', may be one of the hardest working, never-stops, types of personalities I've ever known....I can hang with that level of work, but I also know that my body won't allow me to do it forever & that, with where I'm at now, that I'm already "respecting my limits more" simply to ensure I can climb longer into life, if I do the "beast mode" 75hrs+/wk for a year with creating & operating this company with him I expect I will finally push my left knee out, will finally make that weak lumbar pain into a strong one, etc etc....am feeling 'old man' physically and can work-around that (to a degree) in my sole-proprietorship, but can't/wouldn't if I enter into this partnership (at least for the first 'phase' of setting everything up, it will be work/sleep/work/sleep as life for at least the setup phase...) To be clear, I don't go out to bars or restaurants, don't go surfing or drink alcohol, when I talk 'day off' that day off is running errands, making new fliers for myself, crap like that (lol wow just realized I have literally zero social life, cannot even remember the last time I was around people drinking beers...)
 
Jonny said:
Tampa to New Hampshire eh? You’re about to be entering the wrong time of year for that. Screw it, cash rules, and driving in the snow is fun if you got the right tires. I’d think about it if I had a contract to protect me.
Click to expand...
Well I am from MA (as he is as well, I suspect he just bought land / his mansion in NH because MA is the 3rd most-expensive state for realty) so am familiar with (but still hate :P ) dealing with heavy snow..it's love/hate for sure!!

And Re contracting/protections yes I should've mentioned that....while we are friends, I would be approaching this aspect as-if we were not friends, this is 100.0% requisite for me to do this, I have to have sufficient protection because I'm not a gambler LOL I don't expect any issues w/ contractual stuff though, he's got enough $$$$ that I'm confident he'll sign a clause along the lines of "if everything goes to-shit, this is your walk-away / severence if $X hasn't been earned by xx/xx/xxxx" Am not expecting any issue (or surprise) from him on this issue!
 
Very few people get to do something they truly enjoy and make money with it, you should let that be your focus. I have this day planner that gives hokey advice every month, but this month's was pretty good and VERY true- "A friendship founded on business is a good deal better than a business founded on friendship." John D Rockefeller.
Maybe if you have to ask, you should stay where you're at...
 
My specialty is technical climbing around houses and expanding views for established houses, but I also do a lot of work preparing bare properties for sale. Honestly 'clearing land' is TOTALLY different from the residential tree work it sounds like you are used to doing. To be efficient it is heavily mechanized and is mostly about killing trees from ground-level as opposed to any kind of actual 'tree care' or climbing. I don't mean to offend here, but all you have to offer is that you know how to run a chainsaw. You aren't actually experienced with the kind of work needed. Once you 'learn the ropes' you may be an asset to this business, but until then you are just 'labor' and totally replaceable as you have realized. Moving across the country for a job that can be replaced in a weekend is a gamble and is more about where you want to live than anything else.
 
(1) "the only ship that won't float is a partnership"
(2) Doesn't sound like you'd love the work. Do you enjoy what you are doing now? Are you making enough to survive and save a little for the future? There is growth opportunity...
(3) Your friend sounds like an entrepreneur - starts businesses because he likes to start businesses, not because he wants to do tree work or excavation work. Is that right? Nothing wrong with that - AT ALL - if that is the case. But you need to recognize that going in. He's gonna get bored with this and want to move on to something else. Where would that leave you (see point 1).
(4) If it is about the money...couldn't you double your money with what you are doing now by doubling the hours and going into "beast mode"? If so, and it is about the money, why don't you do that? I'm guessing because life would suck.
 
1) After a huge run up in home prices like what we just had in my area of country, I would be a little wary of getting into anything NEW home related. But, I am not a developer or real estate agent, so what do I know. Real estate is also very area specific too. I just know that every time home prices go crazy, everybody with a toolbox jumps on the bandwagon and starts building homes on pawpaw's old corn field. Research the market yourself.
2) You're now dependent on a business partner for your future.
3) If you don't have a cash buffer, then I'd be cautious. I told my kids growing up that everybody is just a few poor financial decisions away from being homeless.
 
Alright, I can’t help you on your first question.. you have to decide

as for the second.. there can be a little overlap with site clearing and arboriculture but just a wee bit. A arborist would go broke quick using our equipment to do production site clearing. I’d only go as far and as quick as it’s mutually beneficial. Say you want to buy a big chipper regardless of doing land clearing. This might be an opportunity to do so in a mutually beneficial manner. You can use that machine regardless of site clearing. Now if you buy a huge excavator you will be cleaning up in the site clearing (way more better than a big chipper) but that machine is useless in day to day arboriculture.

don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
 
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