5' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

BBBTree

BBBTree

Location
CA
5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

This old growth Eucalyptus is a huge old bug bitten behemoth. It's not the biggest tree in the world, but sawing this thing into manageable pieces has my head spinning. It's a no brainer job, but the chains are dulling rapidly in this thing.

I have a 395XP with a 36" bar. I brought 5 chains to the job on day one, and went home with 5 dull ones. I sharpened them back up that night, and dulled them all again the next day. Nobody is open this weekend to sell me some new chains until Tuesday because of the holiday. I'd like to buy a spool cheap somewhere. Any advice about that?

Do I have to buy Husqvarna brand only for Husky's, or can I buy Oregon etc for it?

Other thing is the question of whether or not I should change up the type of chain for old growth hard wood from now on. Should I employ a different type of tooth or maybe a different tooth spacing such as skip tooth.


Thanks all
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Try carbide chain???

jp
grin.gif
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

I'd call Baileys and talk with them about it. They'll tell you what'll work best on dead Euc, which is well known for treating a saw chain like you're cutting through concrete. They sell spools and deal with a lot of loggers who run across this same type of problem. They'll tell you which chains will work on your saw.

Make sure your bar is in good shape too cause of course, that'll compound the problem. Five new 36" chains, is an expensive loss for one job.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Contact David Perkins, who made this video. He's in CA too. He'll give you lots of good advice, tell him that Royce sent you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8LHBrcI4m8

I realize that his contact information is not included on the video or via google search, so if you are interested, get in touch I'll give you his email and phone number.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Carbide chain adds a bunch of drag, and cost me about $185 for a loop to fit a 24 inch bar for a special project. Additionally one of the disappointing things about really old Euc. logs is that they shock load the other parts of the chain so much that I have broken numerous chains on one log.

If you end up trying carbide another (cheaper) option is a sprayed on carbide coated chain sold by Bailey’s.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Square grind has a more durable working corner, but requires a lot of practice and skill to sharpen properly. Oregon CK for semi skip and CJ for full skip if my memory is working properly. I would probably go with full skip on a 36" bar and I would only be using it when necessary. Using a long bar when a shorter bar will work is not productive due to the excessive sharpening time. Save-Edge makes a good file or if you did a lot of this a grinder would be a smart investment.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Okay, after reading everyone's replies here, and reading several other threads on various websites mostly geared to logging and milling (I'm a buzzer though) I've gathered some info about the chains and the chain business.

I hear that Oregon and Husqvarna chains are the same, and that Stihl and Woodsman are harder metal and longer teeth.

I hear the rounder tooth lasts longer, but is slower cutting. This is better for cutting dirty wood so I hear. I hear that the squarer teeth cut faster, but they don't last as long.

I hear that skip tooth is better for long bars such as 36" or better.

My problem with everything I hear is that the consensus is all over the board, so I have to ask this of the best dedicated, know it all pros on Tree Buzz. What is a better chain for cutting "concrete" hard wood on a long bar/big saw head than a full skip, chisel cutter type made by Woodland?

For the old concrete wood I choose woodland for the price/durability ratio. I choose the chisel tooth for lasting in the hard stuff that wears everything else down instead of square chisel tooth type. Skip tooth is just because it's a long bar hauling saw dust the added distance, plus if the chain had any more teeth, it wood bog down my 395 in this kind of wood.

And I have to admit that I'm not sure about any of what I'm saying. I am sure about the skip tooth variation, but I'm not sure about the cutter tooth type for cutting the "old growth concrete wood."

What cutter tooth type?

Chisel
Semi-Chisel
Square Chisel
or
Ripping


Thanks a hellova a lot



Also I should say I own a bench grinder, and I don't worry about difficulty to file any variation of cutter tooth with this machine. I sharpen several chains at a time and keep them in my saw tool bag while I'm at my jobs.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Well, I know when something's out of my league so I'll let someone else answer about what tooth-type you should use. I will say be careful with the chain grinder though. Take small bites on the metal. When it changes color, you risk losing the factory temper (hardness). The edge becomes soft, and no matter how sharp you get it, hard woods will bend it like tin foil.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Hi,

I always used Stihl chain. Tried others and never found them to hold up as well or perform as good.

Full chisel on clean green wood, cuts fast but must be very sharp and the sharpening geometry spot on and will need more touch-ups.

Semi chisel on dirty dead wood. Won't perform as well but but will hold it's edge longer...but only because it doesn't really have an edge compared to full chisel. I also recommend semi-chisel if you are not bang-on accurate with hand filing.

Any day cutting big Euc logs is going to require lots of regular touch ups by hand filing in the field.

The real solution is either learning to do that well if you don't currently, or just doing it if you can! A quick tickle shouldn't take much longer than swapping chains. Sometimes on big dirty stuff that would be nearly every tank of fuel!
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

This is green clean wood. It's just tough on chains especially crosscutting it. I estimate it's 700 lb per 1 foot slab. The guy I'm subbing for has Just a weak little New Holland tractor to load this with, so it's chain after chain you know.

I'm bringing out some new chains in the morning. I'll just buy what I've been using for this one, but I'll buy a spool of the good stuff later for the future once I can conclude what is the meanest chain on a long bar.

What does anyone know about ripper chain application in the field? I'd call Bailey's, but they're closed today. Thanks
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

As TL said, aggressive bench grinding will cause a loss in temper (hardness).

"Ripping" simply refers to the angle of the cutter tooth; generally 0-10 deg for ripping, 20-40 for crosscutting. A ripping angle will take tiny bites in crosscutting, and a crosscutting angle will unnecessarily increase the load in ripping.

Full-chisel sharpened with a regular round file is the norm; cuts fast until encountering resistance (grit or excessive hardness). "Square" just refers to a style of sharpening a full-chisel chain with a square file, and is even more sensitive to resistance.

Semi-chisel, with rounded side plates, is least sensitive. I can't speak on cutting Euc, but I have found that Stihl - semi-chisel - skip (RMF) has been fastest on shitty hard stuff. As soon as it starts to slow down from dulling, stop and touch up. Driving it into the ground will gain you no ground, and waste your time. Further, I have found under-sizing the bar (e.g. 24" bar in 36" wood) and walking your way through makes for a faster cut and less sharpening.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Whoa!!!!!!!! I have to apologize, I misread the original post or added in my own thoughts or something. I thought we were talking about, and I wrote to the point of, cutting decades old, near ‘petrified’ Euc. logs.

Green clean big logs I have never had a problem with. Unless I hit something, I would easily expect to cut for 4 hours without even touching up my chain. I know you did not ask but, if you are putting in the effort to swap out 5 chains in a work day there are some other things you could look at than buying the next roll of chain.

BBBtree have you tried filing? You don’t have to be able to do it ‘right’, you don’t have to be able to do it as good as other guys on this site. If your goal is efficient completion of a job, being easy on your equip., and conservation of your financial resources you can do it from day one. My chains are not pretty but they produce results.

Would you be interested in talking about how to not change out five chains in a day?

Regards, Merle
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering about that bar. In my experience, the longer the bar, the easier it is to damage, and a bad bar can ruin some chains quick. If your chain is throwing chips but seems to fight sinking into the wood, the bar might be the culprit.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm kinda wondering about that bar. In my experience, the longer the bar, the easier it is to damage, and a bad bar can ruin some chains quick. If your chain is throwing chips but seems to fight sinking into the wood, the bar might be the culprit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's looks normal to me. What do you mean?
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

I'm going to buy a few new files for tomorrow.

Here are some recommendations that somebody emailed me.


Oregon 75CK 115DL and 75CJ 115 DL

Oregon 75 LPX multi-cut

Which stuff is better anyone?
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

Think of the bar like a set of train tracks. The drivelink (bottom tooth) of the chain rides in the groove between the rails of these tracks, and the shoulders of the chain rest on the rails. When these rails spread apart from each other, the chain tilts within the groove, instead of riding perfectly vertical like it should, and causes all sorts of trouble. The chain can be super sharp, but if the bar rails are spread, the saw seems to fight you every step of the way. Take the same saw and chain, put on a new (or fixed) bar, and that thing will sink into the wood like it was meant to be there. My main point being, many times the chain is being incorrectly diagnosed as the problem.

PS: one way to prolong/avoid this problem with the bar rails is to flip the bar...maybe every other fuel change. And stop cutting when something doesn't feel right.
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

That's gold advice, Logic. What would I do if I were going to try to fix my bar's "guide rail" problem with over spacing? Would a vice work, or would a rubber mallet?
 
Re: 5\' DBH Eucalyptus is killing my chains!

No problem at all BBBTree. Here's a relatively inexpensive device that's designed for the task. It's called a bar-rail closer.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=W%2010001

I don't have one, so I really can't speak for how well they work. Others can chime in if they will. A vise could work. But I think most of us just try to be really, really careful with our bars. The longer the bar, the more careful we are. Hey, that rhymes.
grin.gif
Anyway, we've all ruined expensive bars and have learned the hard way to keep them out of the dirt. Even dirt that's stuck to logs. Dirt contains sand. And when that sand gets on the chain, and you press it into the wood, it's like running the chain across sandpaper. Not good, and the loss of sharpness is instantaneous. Sand can also contribute to the hollowing out of the groove in the bar. I carry a sharp hatchet with me and hack away at anything I plan to cut that has dirt on it. The lower portion of a stump is the worst, and if you're grinding the stump, cutting it as low as possible is pretty much routine. Avoid the dirt.

To sum it up, ruining a bar that costs a $100 or more sucks. I've certainly done it before. So treat them like gold. Chains are slightly more sacrificial but still expensive. And a bad chain can cause a bad bar. Maintain them well and stop cutting when there's a problem. Also, I like hand filing better, as others have said. I have a grinder, and use it from time to time, but you have to really be careful with them. Hand filing just doesn't build up the heat that the grinder does. And you can hand file anywhere, not just in the shop. Hand filing can be tough on my knees and ankles since I kneel around the saw, so if I had 5 chains to sharpen I'd probably use the grinder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom