Best sources of employees?

[Mick Dempsey!]

I think as an industry we need to look at why are so many are going the route of contract climbing or starting there own business. Those seem to be what most are looking for. Guys like that are looking for more money and room to grow and advance. I understand that tree work is a young man's game so to speak. But where does an employee go as he begins to age. You can't climb and drag brush forever.

If I could have found a company that had those opportunities I would still be an employee. I am a better tree guy then I am a businessman. Not sure if that isn't part of the problem

It’s a low overhead industry.
Margins are tight, so doing your own thing once you’re competent is a no brainer.

 

[VenasNursery]

I’m having good luck with people that are already retired.
Where or how to find is the ultimate question?
Hardware’s is where I found one.
Maybe charities or fundraisers?

My answer was for ground guys or drivers even operators.
As far as guys in the sky well that’s the million dollars question?

 

[ATH]

I think as an industry we need to look at why are so many are going the route of contract climbing or starting there own business. Those seem to be what most are looking for. Guys like that are looking for more money and room to grow and advance. I understand that tree work is a young man's game so to speak. But where does an employee go as he begins to age. You can't climb and drag brush forever.

If I could have found a company that had those opportunities I would still be an employee. I am a better tree guy then I am a businessman. Not sure if that isn't part of the problem

This is probably more for me then anything.

Not going to pretend I've done a deep dive study into this, but a few thoughts:
1) Hard workers have ambition/people with ambition work hard. This is a hard work industry. "Not hard work" jobs are very easy to come by in the current job market...so the people who were happy just to have a decent job are hard to find. If all that's true, it's logical that a higher percent of workers end up starting their own thing.
2) It is easier than ever to find "how to" resources for starting a business. I think that used to be a scary thing. Now the information is out there for all.
3) YouTube stars. There are a lot of really sketchy people claiming knowledge in the field making a lot of videos, and somehow posting something to YouTube makes one an "expert". Good people with decent training and experience from a legit company see that and think "if that clueless dude can do it, certainly I can make it work!"
4) The big companies pay squat for starters. Sure there are good advancement opportunities, but I think the hard working and ambitious see the opportunities nearer on their own.
5). Who doesn't want to be their own boss and make their own schedule?!?

 

[Chris Schultz]

It’s a low overhead industry.
Margins are tight, so doing your own thing once you’re competent is a no brainer.

Low overhead? I think this industry has a very high overhead/barrier to entry compared to most.

 

[Matias]

Low overhead? I think this industry has a very high overhead/barrier to entry compared to most.

Depends. I started making money on my own helping friends after the fires, and all I had was a 550 and a few wedges. I bought things I needed to do jobs as I booked them, and factored the cost of the new tool or rope into the bid. Almost seven years later and I only have about $17k invested, and I haven't found much I can't do. My biggest limiting factors to growth are the big jumps that are hiring fulltime crew or buying trucks/equipment.

I am working on developing a different kind of business though and am wanting to figure out a non-profit to get all these big old trees around here preserved/maintained.

 

[Bendroctanus]

Not going to pretend I've done a deep dive study into this, bit a few thoughts:
1) Hard workers have ambition/people with ambition work hard. This is a hard work industry. "Not hard work" jobs are very easy to come by in the current job market...so the people who were happy just to have a decent job are hard to find. If all that's true, it's logical that a higher percent of workers end up starting their own thing.
2) It is easier than ever to find "how to" resources for starting a business. I think that used to be a scary thing. Now the information is out there for all.
3) YouTube stars. There are a lot of really sketchy people claiming knowledge in the field making a lot of videos, and somehow posting something to YouTube makes one an "expert". Good people with decent training and experience from a legit company see that and think "if that clueless dude can do it, certainly I can make it work!"
4) The big companies pay squat for starters. Sure there are good advancement opportunities, but I think the hard working and ambitious see the opportunities nearer on their own.
5). Who doesn't want to be their own boss and make their own schedule?!?

Well said. It’s hard to start somebody in tree work, as an old logger that I worked with used to say is, “the hardest job in the world,” at minimum wage or close to it, when frickin’ taco bell is starting people at $17/hr.

 

[Chris Schultz]

@Matias yes I agree, to a degree….. With only $17k total invested, yes you can make money (you clearly have) but, I’m sure there has been/still is some limiting factors hindering potential production/growth, and the capacity to take on certain jobs. When I say “barrier to entry” in the context I meant, it’s more chipper/chip truck, possibly a forestry truck or lift, a decent capacity pick up truck, and the piles of other tools/items that get used on a regular basis. Those big jumps you mention: those are the big picture barriers to entry in my book.

 

[ATH]

@Matias yes I agree, to a degree….. With only $17k total invested, yes you can make money (you clearly have) but, I’m sure there has been/still is some limiting factors hindering potential production/growth, and the capacity to take on certain jobs. When I say “barrier to entry” in the context I meant, it’s more chipper/chip truck, possibly a forestry truck or lift, a decent capacity pick up truck, and the piles of other tools/items that get used on a regular basis. Those big jumps you mention: those are the big picture barriers to entry in my book.

But those are not "necessary".

@jmester started this part of the discussion mentioning, in part, contract climbers. I'm assuming a good climber can find contract work by showing up with nothing. Obviously having more makes them more valuable...but enter into self employment with little or nothing is possible.

As for big iron... equipment loans are not hard to come. I assume bank would rather loan on a big truck they can repo and sell than they would restaurant kitchen equipment that will take a bigger loss if the company goes out. Typing that has got me to wondering...are restaurant owners saying how it's so easy to open a food truck, so barrier to entry is low and it's hard to find good employees???

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

Low overhead? I think this industry has a very high overhead/barrier to entry compared to most.

Truck and chipper 20k and you’re in business, with those you can compete with the biggest companies in the world for small/medium work. You’ll already have the saws and stuff.
No stock to buy, no buildings to rent, no employees (just your mate, who’ll work for cash)

 

[Chris Schultz]

$20k chipper and chip truck eh? I think I’ll spare what’s left of my sanity….. I am at this crossroads currently, the next step for me is a big one, the acquisition of chipper and chip truck is not cheap at all, and I HATE debt (huge thing holding me back I know).

Back to the topic of the thread. I had a brainstorm: Where I live there is a lot of outdoor recreational industry. I’ve had decent luck with ski patrollers or their friends: they have medical knowledge, a basic knowledge in high angle rescue(translates well into rigging etc), and a grit for working in the elements. Also raft guides, similar skill sets, basic rope handling knowledge, situational awareness, working in the elements, decent physical fitness, and some wilderness 1st aid stuff… It’s tough out there, you gotta gamble sometimes.

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

You miss all the shots you don’t make.

 

[ATH]

$20k chipper and chip truck eh? I think I’ll spare what’s left of my sanity….. I am at this crossroads currently, the next step for me is a big one, the acquisition of chipper and chip truck is not cheap at all, and I HATE debt (huge thing holding me back I know).

...

A) I also hate debt. So I'm with you on that. I borrowed like $6k when I first started we paid that off pretty quick. About 15 years later, I had just paid cash to buy land and build a shop The engine went out in my pickup, so it 45 years old I got my first vehicle loan ever. Paid that off in less than 4 years instead of 5. I just bought an Avant. Was going to pay cash, but saw they had 0% for 2 years... Which I was going to do, but when I went to sign the paperwork they also had 0.99% for 3 years. I did the math and saw that it will cost me $500 over 3 years... That only made me throw up on my mouth a little bit so I did that to free up a little bit of cash flow. Will probably still pay it off early.

 

[ATH]

..,.

Back to the topic of the thread. I had a brainstorm: Where I live there is a lot of outdoor recreational industry. I’ve had decent luck with ski patrollers or their friends: they have medical knowledge, a basic knowledge in high angle rescue(translates well into rigging etc), and a grit for working in the elements. Also raft guides, similar skill sets, basic rope handling knowledge, situational awareness, working in the elements, decent physical fitness, and some wilderness 1st aid stuff… It’s tough out there, you gotta gamble sometimes.

It sounds like you need to hit the slopes and go rafting and write that off as a business expense for recruiting. Or the other option would be to hire me as a recruiter for you and cover my expenses . While I'm sure I can find somebody in those environments to work for you, I can't promise I won't try to bring my first choice back to Ohio!

But seriously, I think you're right on with that. People who love being outdoors would love this job. I think we can probably offer better pay and more consistent work than ski patrol in raft guides.

From a the standpoint of working from height & being safety conscious but not risk adverse, I've also thought firefighters would make great employees. I've talked to a couple older guys to see if they had any young co-workers at the station that were ambitious enough to spend their off days doung tree work. That hasn't worked out, but I'm still convinced it would be a good pool of workers.

 

[jmester]

Maybe the question should be could you make it (ie pay your bills and save a little) with what you pay your employees?
I guess as I have gotten older I am questioning how good of a career tree work is. Can i do it till I am 65? Or whatever the supposed retirement age is. Climbing/ground work etc.

 

[Matias]

I have a friend who was a firefighter before he came to tree work, and he was awesome. I know from talking to friends that are outdoors oriented that it's not rare to find plenty that are at least curious about tree work, but many balk at the kind of money on the table when there are easier ways to make money. I think lurking around fitness oriented places could pan out eventually. I saw a picture of me from 7 years ago recently and was astonished at the difference. I got way more muscular doing this, which really was part of what I was after getting into it.

 

[Bendroctanus]

I’ve thought recruiting landscapers might not be a bad source. Might have to vett them a bit but I know a lot of guys get tired of mowing and sheering, want something more. Tree work is a nice shift because its much more diverse and they don’t have to clean up as tedious. But they still clean up great.

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

I’ve thought recruiting landscapers might not be a bad source. Might have to vett them a bit but I know a lot of guys get tired of mowing and sheering, want something more. Tree work is a nice shift because its much more diverse and they don’t have to clean up as tedious. But they still clean up great.

Plus it’s often ‘job and knock’ (British term meaning if the days job is completed, money made, then you go home early)

 

[Chris Schultz]

Maybe the question should be could you make it (ie pay your bills and save a little) with what you pay your employees?
I guess as I have gotten older I am questioning how good of a career tree work is. Can i do it till I am 65? Or whatever the supposed retirement age is. Climbing/ground work etc.

My help makes considerably more than I pay myself currently. There is a bit of illusion in that though as I am paying myself very frugally while scaling the operation…..

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

My help makes considerably more than I pay myself currently.

My accountant pointed this out to me as well.

 

[Chris Schultz]

@ATH resort skiing anymore is a complete rip off, and the vibe has been eroded by overcrowding of entitled assholery… The people that still get after it (the type I’d want to recruit) you’d have a hell of a time convincing them to leave the mountains, and the lifestyle for the Midwest. I mean absolutely no disrespect by that, I grew up in central Wisconsin, just being honest!!