Velcroed Tops, Spiderman and Treeson
- Thread starter Bart_
- Start date
I watch Jake and love him and Randi are really funny guys but it sucks he had to eat a bunch of fines to start doing his work properly bc before he got those fines he was showing a lot of hack tree work. It's ok if you're fine with being a hack but don't show it on you tube and make excuses.
Sucks he had to eat those fines but I'm glad he's showing better tree work. It's funny bc he runs sappy supplies and when you operate by the book you can def advertise and sell more gear....he's a smart kid and you can tell he's figured that out
Sucks he had to eat those fines but I'm glad he's showing better tree work. It's funny bc he runs sappy supplies and when you operate by the book you can def advertise and sell more gear....he's a smart kid and you can tell he's figured that out
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Nicely done!
I watched it start to finish with not one out-loud groaner or a moment of FastFoirward.
The job was bigger than any I ever did. The trees here aren't as big.
Small short comings.
Less one handed saw cutting
Hot cut and seal rope ends
What does a job like that sell for?
I watched it start to finish with not one out-loud groaner or a moment of FastFoirward.
The job was bigger than any I ever did. The trees here aren't as big.
Small short comings.
Less one handed saw cutting
Hot cut and seal rope ends
What does a job like that sell for?
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
He seems to have grown fast and big.
His state OSHA dept watched his videos and slapped him with a bunch of fines if I recall.
Yah no kidding, dude has a TON of iron within like a year or twos time. I know YouTube doesn't pay much anymore as far as ad revenue, so I guess he must be making a lot with sponsorships and through his store.
As far as the video/work, I've done similar (though smaller) projects and this is just about how I'd tackle it as well. I thought they did a good job overall. It is extremely hard to tell just how wedged into the standing tree an uprooted tree is (especially on someone else video), which is a massive unknown variable when forced to climb the uprooted tree. For that reason I might add yet another rigging line, a lowering system tying the leaning tree into the support tree higher up. Lock it off to prevent movement while on the uprooted tree so you aren't totally reliant on the GRCS line much lower on the trunk. Even just a sling connecting the two trees where their trunks are close is a quick safety addition. But yah, that was a lot of work and they handled it well as far as I'm concerned.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Here workers comp is ran by the state, this is all rolled into business licensing and prevailing wage is a sister org under the same roof.
They have different rate class codes (and fees per worker hour). It’s not about job title but nature of the task. Because of this arborists cannot fell a tree under the general tree work classification, they call it logging. Some codes can be split throughout the day, so a job that involves a bunch of pruning over a house and felling a tree in the back yard is $4.50 per worker hour for the general climbing work, but close to $20 per for the tree felling.
We are allowed to split working a hedge using landscape work codes, and a climbing removal as tree work. But if the hedge trimmings go into a chipper it’s all tree work! Yet landscapers can rent a chipper?!
Shop rates are pretty cheap, if it’s raining in the am, and the worker is servicing saws the WHOLE day must be shop rate. If the day clears up and we run off to a job then the whole day has to be tree work (or the highest class code for work preformed).
If you get an audit, they go through all your invoices, find a comparable company, then charge you the difference with penalties and interest.
Owners can elect to have this coverage for themselves. Yet All hours MUST be accounted for, including bid days/trips, and office work. While these rates are cheap if not accounted for properly the state can just assume the billable hours and screw you.
Subcontracting is extremely complicated, it basically comes down to: the sub must bring their own employees, set their own schedule, and bring substantial equipment. No collab working. Otherwise they are considered employees and the general is accountable for everything.
I’m guessing some of their collab with Randy and questionable work practices shown in their videos was essentially handing the state a cake with a bow tie on it.
It gets even more complicated with prevailing wage, as they have a whole separate set of classes/tasks and rates.
Part of the issue from their perspective is the construction trades. They show up to a house build, with 6 people working on it. Turns out they are all subs working collaboratively. They get dinged and the general then has to pay as if all the subs are their employees. 5 digit fines are very common on their ‘investigations’. If you roll over they will reduce the fine, if you argue they will stick their guns until you hire a lawyer.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Like a bad dream for someone who riskd his life to make a living... If the tree doesn't kill you, you get to come down to this morass..
data farm 26
Been here a while
- Location
- Casablanca
Yeah that sounds absolutely ridiculous.
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
The rules are there to protect the workers who otherwise can get really screwed if they get injured. I’m perfectly happy to play by the rules in both Oregon and Washington.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
More idiotic examples..
Prevailing wage for basic pruning and removals:
General labor chainsaw, general labor brush hog feeder at ~$65
Powerline clearance (actual description of pruning and removals) ~$37
Yet we can’t use the powerline wage rate because of the word powerline.
On the workman’s comp, they don’t describe pruning at all, it’s literally ‘tree topping, stump grinding and removal’ @~4.50
Yet deep in there there is forest thinning but you have to get approval before submitting a quote.
This is at @ 2.30
The kicker is it’s for prison crews working for DNR.
To fell a tree it’s automatically logging. @ near $20
Landscapers can prune and remove ornamentals at any height, but they can’t do rigging because that’s topping ?! We can cut a line of trees in half and call it hedging but we can’t prune a weeping Japanese maple with handsnips prune a yard ornamental if we also do general tree work (topping).
Prevailing wage for basic pruning and removals:
General labor chainsaw, general labor brush hog feeder at ~$65
Powerline clearance (actual description of pruning and removals) ~$37
Yet we can’t use the powerline wage rate because of the word powerline.
On the workman’s comp, they don’t describe pruning at all, it’s literally ‘tree topping, stump grinding and removal’ @~4.50
Yet deep in there there is forest thinning but you have to get approval before submitting a quote.
This is at @ 2.30
The kicker is it’s for prison crews working for DNR.
To fell a tree it’s automatically logging. @ near $20
Landscapers can prune and remove ornamentals at any height, but they can’t do rigging because that’s topping ?! We can cut a line of trees in half and call it hedging but we can’t prune a weeping Japanese maple with handsnips prune a yard ornamental if we also do general tree work (topping).
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I am too, it’s just stupid on the double standards. And in comparison I do feel the rates aren’t too bad more so when I’m hearing 20% or more when having to buy privatized workers comp
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
According to the state it is. The roots come into taxation for forest products. Similar to how we can remove trees on our property all we want (unless there is some other layer of enviro law) but soon at the logs move off the property it’s a taxable product that requires a permit. (Unless its disposal)
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
I wonder the exact differentiation...climb and cut a limb, maybe hang a rope...does that qualify it as a dismantle.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
The answer I got was really annoying and subjective. They mentioned ‘well if we come by and your 80’ up cutting limbs that are, you know, 3/4” or 1” that’s pruning, we can call that landscaping’ ‘but well if you have a 3” limb tied off with a rope, we have to call that topping so code 0106’
I went in circles with them about fine pruning weeping Japanese maples, their POV is it has the word “tree” and because I work under 0106 that’s that, even though a landscaper can do identical work.
I just gave up and everything is 0106… and I’m the only one that is allowed by the company to fell trees. The grey area is if we use a tag line or the guys are “part of the felling” process.
From what I’ve heard it comes down to what is written in quotes and invoices. I choose “tree removal” for any removal regardless on the manner.
I'm getting a gist that Treeson's treason fines were clerical bookkeeping details, so there were no grand oopses that got procedural or safety fines? As an example, would Human's near self squish qualify for a specific fine? Or is it more basic like ppe use? Wandering around in the drop zone? etc
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I might be incorrect but my understanding is an owner operator can do pretty much anything, the regulations are for employees only.
I think where he got really dinged was the video sending an employee up near the wires in his bucket truck.
What no one knows is the status of Randy being a legit subcontractor or employee, or if he elects to have workers comp on himself which would hold him to the same standards as his employees.
Technically I can dismantle a tree without a hard hat, without a climbing line, and wave the saw around one handed like a madman. Yet my employees have to abide by all the regulations and rules (with myself being responsible for the repercussions.
So there is some nuance, but there is a line from owner operator and owner employee. With Treeson I’m expecting that it’s a combination of all the above. I’ve seen willful critical area violations (at least if the same work was done in my county which is incredibly lenient).
Does that make sense?
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