Battery ground saws

[Phil]

Discussion on the larger battery ground saws that are out.

We have the Stihl MSA 300C with 20" bar at work. I don't much care for all the button time outs when using it. Takes a special big battery to get full power. Looks cool though

I got my hands on the Milwaukee dual battery saw and have been putting the screws to it. I use it for everything except obviously bigger trees that are beyond its battery life to efficiently do, but I do try to avoid gas saws as much as possible right now to bench mark work load achievable without having a truck load of batteries to keep swapping out. I run it with 2 of the 8.0 forge which came with it then swap to a 12.0 forge with another 8.0 forge cus that's all I have. If I'm hauling ass in the woods I will run all four batteries out by 9:00 - 9:30 but get like 6-7 trees down and bucked/limbed/stumped. It has two power settings and I leave it on the lower of the two. It does have some heft to it when you pick it up but once working I don't notice it much. It does have a slower chain speed so I need to be careful in the smaller, whippy understory stuff I cut so it doesn't throw the chain. That's not an issue if in a true urban setting just cutting solid wood. So far, this thing rips. I borecut no problem. I really wish it had a full chisel, non reduced kickback chain for more cutting aggression though. If I'm close enough to the shop I'll stop in for lunch and throw two batteries on the supercharger. They are fully charged by the time I'm done which effectively gives me 6 batteries on the day. If I was working at a private residence, I would bring the supercharger in the field with me and plug it in to an outside power source at the client's property. I think with 6 batteries and a supercharger on site, you'd be hard pressed to run out of juice in the rotation.

Anybody running battery ground saws with any regularity on actual job sites? The only tests I see on YouTube are people just cutting cookies and timing it. Doesn't really give a real world stress test. I think I saw one video where an entire job was done with just battery saws.

 

[Maplegeddon213]

Discussion on the larger battery battery ground saws that are out.

We have the Stihl MSA 300C with 20" bar at work. I don't much care for all the button time outs when using it. Takes a special big battery to get full power. Looks cool though

I got my hands on the Milwaukee dual battery saw and have been putting the screws to it. I use it for everything except obviously bigger trees that are beyond its battery life to efficiently do, but I do try to avoid gas saws as much as possible right now to bench mark work load achievable without having a truck load of batteries to keep swapping out. I run it with 2 of the 8.0 forge which came with it then swap to a 12.0 forge with another 8.0 forge cus that's all I have. If I'm hauling ass in the woods I will run all four batteries out by 9:00 - 9:30 but get like 6-7 trees down and bucked/limbed/stumped. It has two power settings and I leave it on the lower of the two. It does have some heft to it when you pick it up but once working I don't notice it much. It does have a slower chain speed so I need to be careful in the smaller, whippy understory stuff I cut so it doesn't throw the chain. That's not an issue if in a true urban setting just cutting solid wood. So far, this thing rips. I borecut no problem. I really wish it had a full chisel, non reduced kickback chain for more cutting aggression though. If I'm close enough to the shop I'll stop in for lunch and throw two batteries on the supercharger. They are fully charged by the time I'm done which effectively gives me 6 batteries on the day. If I was working at a private residence, I would bring the supercharger in the field with me and plug it in to an outside power source at the client's property. I think with 6 batteries and a supercharger on site, you'd be hard pressed to run out of juice in the rotation.

Anybody running battery ground saws with any regularity on actual job sites? The only tests I see on YouTube are people just cutting cookies and timing it. Doesn't really give a real world stress test. I think I saw one video where an entire job was done with just battery saws.

My company runs all battery tophandles for 2 crews and each truck has at least one rear handled MSA 220 as well. We also bought the MSA 300 this last summer.

I think it's interesting hearing your experience with limited batteries, we have a total of 10 or 11 batteries so each crew has at least 5 every day and we mostly do pruning so we don't run out of batteries hardly ever. We have two charging banks at the shop that fits 4 of the batteries each.

I love working on and running gas saws but I have been converted to preferring the electric tophandles while in the tree or bucket. My hands and wrists feel significantly better at the end of the day without needing to rip on a pull cord for every small cut I'm making. I don't worry about my hearing loss as much because now it's just the chipper and removals when it is high decibels for extended periods of time.

I think the 161T is great for pruning and even real small climbing removals. The 220T replaces the 201T for me. There's one thing that bothers me with the 220T which is that the chain will tighten up seemingly randomly and I can't figure it out. It's not too often and it could be something with the bar or oiler but I haven't had it happen with the 201.

The MSA 300 which I was told is "supposed to be equivalent to a 261" I initially hated. It's so much heavier than a 261 and still doesn't have that pure power feel of a 2 stroke. It's also got stupidly placed buttons like you said. I've come around to it on the ground just because it does have a ton of power for not being loud and needing to start but I'll never use it in the tree over the 261, it's just too heavy. I'm really interested in using the milwaukee dual battery one although I suspect I'll hate the weight I am most impressed with that ones cutting in videos.

 

[ghostice]

Any comments on temperature ranges, on the low end, you're using these batteries/ battery saws at. I've written earlier that even at about +5 degC I couldn't get either Husky or DeWalt batteries to charge outside in any reasonable time which was a new one on me. And what about use down in the -10 degC range?

 

[Phil]

I have been converted to preferring the electric tophandles while in the tree or bucket.

Agreed. I am of the mind there is no reason to buy a gas top handle ever again. I have the Milwaukee top handle and its got torque for days. The ergonomics can be improved on it but I would choose it over a gas top handle every day. I was initially concerned about the weight of the dual battery saw but the pros of no pull start, lower noise and no vibration, its kind a wash with the con of the weight. I do think over time, they (battery industry in general) will get better, lighter batteries and the motors will get smaller and more powerful.

 

[Phil]

Any comments on temperature ranges, on the low end, you're using these batteries/ battery saws at. I've written earlier that even at about +5 degC I couldn't get either Husky or DeWalt batteries to charge outside in any reasonable time which was a new one on me. And what about use down in the -10 degC range?

Haven't ran them or tried to charge them in bitter cold. I'm curious about this as well.

 

[Maplegeddon213]

This winter the coldest we worked was maybe 0° F but I barely noticed much of a difference in run time honestly, and with 10 batteries it didn't matter, it's less of a hassle to switch batteries than pour gasoline in my opinion. I haven't tried charging outside.

*Edited a spelling mistake

 

[ghostice]

Me neither, I'm sitting out for cold weather these days. Luckily, with global warming, not much winter here anymore

It is a mystery why the wizards we have running things in our nation's capital Ottawa keep trying to Carbon Tax everything that still moves back into colder weather . . . . tax tax tax tax . . . .

 

[Boomslang]

I find batteries drain slightly quicker in colder temps, but not anything significant. I always have enough full batteries on hand for the day, so can't speak to charging outdoors.

 

[ghostice]

There was a discussion a while back about bar oil - because (is it just my hypothesis here) battery saws run colder in low temps, really lot lighter chain oil may help with the drain?

 

[Phil]

There was a discussion a while back about bar oil - because (is it just my hypothesis here) battery saws run colder in low temps, really lot lighter chain oil may help with the drain?

I only run winter grade through it. They don't build up heat from an internal combustion engine to loosen up stock bar oil viscosity.

 

[Phil]

From today's job: dead but still solid, full of moisture at the stump red oak. Started with two slightly used 8.0 forge (3 of 4 battery indicators on). Notched it, dropped, bucked the log up in two places and started the stump flush. Made it about a bars width into the stump and the batteries died. Replaced with the 12.0 and an 8.0. Finished the stump and had 3 of 4 indicators left on each battery.
Edit: We pieced the top out with the Stihl MSA 220T. Didn't use the Milwaukee top handle because I wanted to see how the batteries did in the big wood. Either way, no gas saws used.

One of the more impressive things about this saw is that if it cuts out in the middle of a cut, I just need to cycle the throttle/trigger. It will start pulling when buried in wood.

 

[Matias]

I am looking forward to getting into an all electric setup eventually. I am stoked to hear such positivity about it here.

 

[GregManning]

EV's have SIGNIFIGANT problems in both range (>25%) and recharging times in cold weather !
I assume battery equipment, saws, etc, will have similar, or more, deficiencies ?

 

[ghostice]

I do like my battery blowers but am noticing that on two or three year old batteries, they aren't lasting nearly as long at -25C as they did when newer/ first year (even though light indicates "full charge" indoors on the workbench). I have nothing to quantify how much less, except they only make it thru about 1 1/2 driveways of light fluffy "cold smoke" powder snow now.

 

[Lumberjack]

I keep a 201, 2x 500i, and Milwaukee's top handle and dual battery saws on the truck. I really like using the dual battery aloft vs having to crank a 500i in the basket. I only use it in the high power mode, it can really pour out the man glitter.

Either electric saw can chew through the batteries, especially in bigger wood. That's hardly a surprise considering the energy density of batteries vs gas. In general battery usage isn't a concern, we keep plenty in the truck and a 6 pack Rapid Charger.


I use an electric top handle when we're rigging or cutting and tossing, saves starting the saw so frequently and under ~6" or so its faster than the ported 201 unless it's already running.

If the saw can stay running more, I use gas. This week we started a job removing 26 trees, day three (yesterday) was the first time using a 500i, got it out to alap stumps, but then kept using it. We have 4 trees to finish Monday.

View attachment Dual Battery Milwaukee Blocking 4k.mp4

 

[ATH]

There was a discussion a while back about bar oil - because (is it just my hypothesis here) battery saws run colder in low temps, really lot lighter chain oil may help with the drain?

I still run 100% Canola year round. Just have a top handle battery.

Probably haven't run it below 20 degrees F. No problems with oil. Battery seems to have less juice.

 

[Maplegeddon213]

I still run 100% Canola year round. Just have a top handle battery.

Probably haven't run it below 20 degrees F. No problems with oil. Battery seems to have less juice.

I'm so curious if the canola is any different to the green eco oil stihl sells. I'm going to start running one of our older saws with it and paying attention to it.

 

[Phil]

I keep a 201, 2x 500i, and Milwaukee's top handle and dual battery saws on the truck. I really like using the dual battery aloft vs having to crank a 500i in the basket. I only use it in the high power mode, it can really pour out the man glitter.

Either electric saw can chew through the batteries, especially in bigger wood. That's hardly a surprise considering the energy density of batteries vs gas. In general battery usage isn't a concern, we keep plenty in the truck and a 6 pack Rapid Charger.


I use an electric top handle when we're rigging or cutting and tossing, saves starting the saw so frequently and under ~6" or so its faster than the ported 201 unless it's already running.

If the saw can stay running more, I use gas. This week we started a job removing 26 trees, day three (yesterday) was the first time using a 500i, got it out to alap stumps, but then kept using it. We have 4 trees to finish Monday.

View attachment 97418

What batteries do you run in the Milwaukees?

Have you used the low setting enough to really see how it differs from the high setting? I have not used the high setting yet as I'm trying to just see what the low setting is capable of.

 

[Lumberjack]

@Phil I only use Forge batteries, primarily 6ah in the top handle and primarily 8 and 12ah in the dual battery.

Aside from when I first used it as a novelty, the only time I use the low power mode is when I forget to push the button after swapping batteries, or if it times out.

I get paid to delete trees, I can’t come up with a reason to not be in high mode.

 

[Phil]

@Phil I only use Forge batteries, primarily 6ah in the top handle and primarily 8 and 12ah in the dual battery.

Aside from when I first used it as a novelty, the only time I use the low power mode is when I forget to push the button after swapping batteries, or if it times out.

I get paid to delete trees, I can’t come up with a reason to not be in high mode.

Interesting. From my understanding, the high power mode increases power output but that basically translates to higher torque/less chance of stalling in a cut. It does not seem to increase chain speed. Which means the time it takes to complete a cut in low vs high mode is the same so long as you don't stall it. High mode will drain the batteries faster though I do not know by how much. The few stalls I have happen when making large cuts on big wood are resolved quickly with a cycle of the trigger. One could argue that running in low (subjective term as I feel there is lots of power here) mode maximizes battery life which results in fewer stops to swap batteries which means you can delete more trees quicker. I'm just thinking out load here. I tend to try an maximize battery life between swaps. I'll be playing around with both setting to see what I notice.

I have a couple of the 12.0 high output batteries and I ran one in the top handle the other day. It was a noticeable step backwards from the forge battery life span. I got some decent work done but I was surprised when it quit. I have to believe they are working on the next gen forge, or whatever they want to name it, so I'm excited to see where the advancements show up. Put solar panels on the top of my helmet with an umbilical cord going to the saw and have unlimited run time?