Climber looking for work in Asheville, NC area

[Mauigoku]

Love those trees. My favorite Maui climbs. Unbelievable structure. Kind of like a honeylocust in growth habit but way cooler.

The southern Appalachains are some of the most diverse in tree species on the planet. So many teachers in these woods. Unbelievable beauty, as in Maui- but a very different flavor of course. The steep slopes won’t be new for you- that throws a lot of folks off at first and sure adds to the considerations with tree work.

Ya man, those are some of my favorite trees to climb in Hawaii.

I was wondering what the level of diversity is here. I see such a variety of species whenever I go on even a short drive around Asheville.

Haha, really? Not a lot of people can handle hard work can they? I didn't even consider that. Too many flat earthers. Cant handle even if there's a flat sidewalk to walk on.

 

[Mauigoku]

Well.. I started working for a respected company last week as an employee. Haggled my way to $28.50hr from $28...HA. Just got my first check and found out I'm making $190 a day.. Climbing, rigging, driving trucks, operating all the equipment, coordinating the crew, cleanup, using all my own gear except rigging gear.

MUCH different then where i was before this, making $65hr as contract worker.

What to do? Ask for a significant raise to like $35-40hr after only being with him for 8 days?
Quit and only do contract work?
quit the tree biz altogether?(NEEEEVVERRRR)
Move away somewhere else that pays?
Suck up all my pride and use my skills to get dirt pay for a while?

Im stumped

 

[Matias]

The west coast is still a climbers market, especially if you got your ISA cert and TRAQ. arpund here there's been years of steady hiring at union rates.

 

[Serf Life]

Corporate MO seems to be go lateral to another company for better pay, or say you are and then get a raise at the current company. In our seasonal affected trade prob more options in late spring early summer? Good luck, hope something shakes out.

 

[southsoundtree]

How are you measuring up to their other climber(s) and crew knowledge base?

How easy/difficult is the work?

What can you do to add value to the company, such as training?




Ask for company gear/ gear allowance.


Start your own biz. Seriously, barriers to entry are small if you already have your own gear. Pick and choose jobs. Especially "down-only" types, if there are people looking to clean their own mess, but want an insured pro for a challenging (beyond skilled homeowner) job.


Doesn't have to replace your day job, if you're open to working Saturdays.

I live in an area where some (especially older) people are active and have used chainsaws for years, maybe itching at the chance to get theirs going.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Sounds about right!
This is a good lesson in doing some market research before you move somewhere. Like I said in my original reply, tree work and consequently tree workers are incredibly undervalued in this town in particular!

 

[Mauigoku]

How are you measuring up to their other climber(s) and crew knowledge base?

How easy/difficult is the work?

What can you do to add value to the company, such as training?




Ask for company gear/ gear allowance.


Start your own biz. Seriously, barriers to entry are small if you already have your own gear. Pick and choose jobs. Especially "down-only" types, if there are people looking to clean their own mess, but want an insured pro for a challenging (beyond skilled homeowner) job.


Doesn't have to replace your day job, if you're open to working Saturdays.

I live in an area where some (especially older) people are active and have used chainsaws for years, maybe itching at the chance to get theirs going.

My first day I climbed 5 or 6 white oaks to prune and deadwood, and a big sycamore, then helped cleanup. Another climber did one or two, the other climber did the same and we had another guy in a bucket do a couple.

You know what the work consists of and the difficulty. It varies depending on the job.

I can and do add a lot of value to anyone I work with. I always try to teach the guys I'm around how to tie knots they don't know, offer to show them splicing, teach them about plant biology..etc

There's a $500 a year gear allowance. He bought me a pair of chainsaw pants which was nice. One per year for those I guess..

You got a good point there. Everyone has been telling me to start my own. I'm just a little intimidated by it. It's a big commitment.

 

[Matias]

My first day I climbed 5 or 6 white oaks to prune and deadwood, and a big sycamore, then helped cleanup. Another climber did one or two, the other climber did the same and we had another guy in a bucket do a couple.

You know what the work consists of and the difficulty. It varies depending on the job.

I can and do add a lot of value to anyone I work with. I always try to teach the guys I'm around how to tie knots they don't know, offer to show them splicing, teach them about plant biology..etc

There's a $500 a year gear allowance. He bought me a pair of chainsaw pants which was nice. One per year for those I guess..

You got a good point there. Everyone has been telling me to start my own. I'm just a little intimidated by it. It's a big commitment.

At least try to get some side hustle going. Thats how I stay afloat

 

[Dan Thornton]

Everyone has been telling me to start my own. I'm just a little intimidated by it. It's a big commitment.

My tree business consultant strongly suggested doing any business only part-time (2 days a week) for at least a year. Boy that was great advice.
First, I still had my main job and didn't hurt myself while I was still bidding too low.
Second, all my income could go into more training and getting helpful equipment.
Third, the business side can be overwhelming. Last week, I only had to produce one W-2 and one 1099-NEC but it was like torture. Next year it will be much easier.
Finally, I learned what clients work well for me, and they are starting to spread the word for me and get me other jobs.
So, the suggestion to start with some side hustle is a good one, as long as you do it as a legit side business.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

At least try to get some side hustle going. Thats how I stay afloat

Interesting. I stayed afloat making $18.50 a year working full time as an isa certified arborist, doing crane removals etc, back in 2016-2018. I actually did more than stay afloat- bought a great used car, and a house, got married, making that.

I’m glad people are able to make a lot more than that, just a few years later. Wish I had gotten more of a slice of the pie back then!

Edit- yes, this was not a fair wage when you compare it to other areas- and the thing is, the local market didn’t support charging enough money in this area. And it still doesn’t. There are way too many guys with a chainsaw and a pickup who will do a $3k job for $300 and a pack of cigarettes. That’s what has kept our wages down so much.

 

[Serf Life]

Interesting. I stayed afloat making $18.50 a year working full time as an isa certified arborist, doing crane removals etc, back in 2016-2018. I actually did more than stay afloat- bought a great used car, and a house, got married, making that.

Correct if wrong etc. I really enjoy running real world numbers on cost of living and business budget.

~$38,500/yr b4 taxes, minus used car (bought outright I assume?). What cost of house and mortgage per month? Cost of rent before buying your house? Wife’s income back then? Regional costs of houses is so variable, esp pre-post covid. Avg home sale price in my county is now $500k, wild guessing $300k before covid.

I was lead climber with cranes as well at $18.50 in 2015 before marriage. Boss gave us $ for basic healthcare totaling ~$3k, Got taxed $8k claiming single, refunded $330, for a net of about $31,000. After food, rent, vehicle costs, utilities etc I’m remembering having fuck all at the end of the year.

 

[Matias]

Interesting. I stayed afloat making $18.50 a year working full time as an isa certified arborist, doing crane removals etc, back in 2016-2018. I actually did more than stay afloat- bought a great used car, and a house, got married, making that.

I’m glad people are able to make a lot more than that, just a few years later. Wish I had gotten more of a slice of the pie back then!

Edit- yes, this was not a fair wage when you compare it to other areas- and the thing is, the local market didn’t support charging enough money in this area. And it still doesn’t. There are way too many guys with a chainsaw and a pickup who will do a $3k job for $300 and a pack of cigarettes. That’s what has kept our wages down so much.

California is pretty expensive. I have debts stemming from the covid shutdowns, including land payments, and trying to build a house myself on said land. My wife stays at home to be a full time teacher for our daughter. We don't buy shitty food, and refuse to, as that's part of my overall health plan. My commute distances are pretty intense, and the cheap gas around here is still hovering around $5/gal, and one car runs diesel at almost $6. I'm not blaming anyone for the choices I have made, but a guy's gotta hustle harder if he's gonna make it happen in a single lifetime out here, especially since I started at 0 here in 2010.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Correct if wrong etc. I really enjoy running real world numbers on cost of living and business budget.

~$38,500/yr b4 taxes, minus used car (bought outright I assume?). What cost of house and mortgage per month? Cost of rent before buying your house? Wife’s income back then? Regional costs of houses is so variable, esp pre-post covid. Avg home sale price in my county is now $500k, wild guessing $300k before covid.

I was lead climber with cranes as well at $18.50 in 2015 before marriage. Boss gave us $ for basic healthcare totaling ~$3k, Got taxed $8k claiming single, refunded $330, for a net of about $31,000. After food, rent, vehicle costs, utilities etc I’m remembering having fuck all at the end of the year.

Serf life indeed lol
Car was inexpensive, made payments.
House is a cheap double wide trailer.
Won’t go into other personal details online, with respect.

 

[Serf Life]

How are you measuring up to their other climber(s) and crew knowledge base?

How easy/difficult is the work?

What can you do to add value to the company, such as training?




Ask for company gear/ gear allowance.


Start your own biz. Seriously, barriers to entry are small if you already have your own gear. Pick and choose jobs. Especially "down-only" types, if there are people looking to clean their own mess, but want an insured pro for a challenging (beyond skilled homeowner) job.


Doesn't have to replace your day job, if you're open to working Saturdays.

I live in an area where some (especially older) people are active and have used chainsaws for years, maybe itching at the chance to get theirs going.

Thanks for posting this Sean, you hit on some key issues with industry/society compensation that are rampant. It’s failed when a worker needs to have a side-hustle/job to when they are peak skilled in their company. It’s also such a common recommendation to go start one’s own company to make livable wages. My carpenter dad made about $50k gross (OP wages) in 2007 which was “decent”.

 

[Mauigoku]

Correct if wrong etc. I really enjoy running real world numbers on cost of living and business budget.

~$38,500/yr b4 taxes, minus used car (bought outright I assume?). What cost of house and mortgage per month? Cost of rent before buying your house? Wife’s income back then? Regional costs of houses is so variable, esp pre-post covid. Avg home sale price in my county is now $500k, wild guessing $300k before covid.

I was lead climber with cranes as well at $18.50 in 2015 before marriage. Boss gave us $ for basic healthcare totaling ~$3k, Got taxed $8k claiming single, refunded $330, for a net of about $31,000. After food, rent, vehicle costs, utilities etc I’m remembering having fuck all at the end of the year.

How do I unlike this? Haha

 

[southsoundtree]

My first day I climbed 5 or 6 white oaks to prune and deadwood, and a big sycamore, then helped cleanup. Another climber did one or two, the other climber did the same and we had another guy in a bucket do a couple.

You know what the work consists of and the difficulty. It varies depending on the job.

I can and do add a lot of value to anyone I work with. I always try to teach the guys I'm around how to tie knots they don't know, offer to show them splicing, teach them about plant biology..etc

There's a $500 a year gear allowance. He bought me a pair of chainsaw pants which was nice. One per year for those I guess..

You got a good point there. Everyone has been telling me to start my own. I'm just a little intimidated by it. It's a big commitment.

Write down all the steps to the commitment.

Write down the answers.

Look for a Small Business Incubator-type thing.



Once you are legal, you can charge what you can get for contract climbing. As mentioned, one guy , here, charges around $100/ hour. That's keeping him busy enough.
A business should probably be billing $150/ hour for a top climber, here.



An accountant may be able to do all your paperwork for a fee. Mine did my incorporation, does my W/C, monthly sales tax, quarterly taxes, and annual taxes.




Maybe you can bring those numbers to the boss. Ask if you can also do 40%-50% as much work as you did for the same pay as the other climber.

 

[Matias]

Write down all the steps to the commitment.

Once you are legal, you can charge what you can get for contract climbing. One guy , here, charges around $100/ hour.

An accountant may be able to do all your paperwork for a fee.




Maybe you can bring those numbers to the boss. Ask if you can also do 40%-50% as much work as you did for the same pay as the other climber.

Yea @Mauigoku , I would definitely not hesitate to point out that you can do about twice the work in a given time as what they're used to seeing. I have pointed this out before, when I was a farm hand, and got my pay nearly doubled, because they didn't have to hire a third guy. Or at least, you can lay back and not work so hard if you just have to bide your time while you work out other situations...

 

[Mauigoku]

Yea @Mauigoku , I would definitely not hesitate to point out that you can do about twice the work in a given time as what they're used to seeing. I have pointed this out before, when I was a farm hand, and got my pay nearly doubled, because they didn't have to hire a third guy. Or at least, you can lay back and not work so hard if you just have to bide your time while you work out other situations...

Ya, I figure I'll work a little longer to give him time to see my performance. Lately he hasn't been on the jobs. Now that I'm here, he can run 2 crews or one bigger crew. Then I'll bring up the reasons why I'm valuable and request a significant raise.
It's hard being on the job and thinking of all the shit I just did and realizing I only made like $180 bucks...
Fartin around and working slow is not my style. I like to maximize efficiency. Pay attention to what everyone is doing, and every situation, and run over and stop something if need be, or be there to help. Ya know... the tree guy senses... I cant and refuse to turn into a redneck half assed style worker.. I show up every morning 10-15min early, before anyone gets there. Start the trucks and start getting ready.
If I'm on time, I'm late.

 

[Matias]

Ya, I figure I'll work a little longer to give him time to see my performance. Lately he hasn't been on the jobs. Now that I'm here, he can run 2 crews or one bigger crew. Then I'll bring up the reasons why I'm valuable and request a significant raise.
It's hard being on the job and thinking of all the shit I just did and realizing I only made like $180 bucks...
Fartin around and working slow is not my style. I like to maximize efficiency. Pay attention to what everyone is doing, and every situation, and run over and stop something if need be, or be there to help. Ya know... the tree guy senses... I cant and refuse to turn into a redneck half assed style worker.. I show up every morning 10-15min early, before anyone gets there. Start the trucks and start getting ready.
If I'm on time, I'm late.

I have huge respect for that. That's my MO as well. I had to force myself to slow down during my stint in retail, when after my third "raise" of $0.50 as an assistant manager, I realized that it was a dead end, but I couldn't afford to quit without a plan.

 

[islandarb]

Well.. I started working for a respected company last week as an employee. Haggled my way to $28.50hr from $28...HA. Just got my first check and found out I'm making $190 a day.. Climbing, rigging, driving trucks, operating all the equipment, coordinating the crew, cleanup, using all my own gear except rigging gear.

MUCH different then where i was before this, making $65hr as contract worker.

What to do? Ask for a significant raise to like $35-40hr after only being with him for 8 days?
Quit and only do contract work?
quit the tree biz altogether?(NEEEEVVERRRR)
Move away somewhere else that pays?
Suck up all my pride and use my skills to get dirt pay for a while?

Im stumped

Who was it, if you don't mind saying. Heartwood?