Sales, bidding, estimating: what's your style?

data farm 26

data farm 26

Been here a while
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How do you approach this critical aspect of the business? Setting the stage and client expectations in the meeting can have a huge effect on the way the job goes, in my experience.

Do you talk yourself/business up or keep it humble?

Do you show some proof of credentials?

Soft sell or hard sell?

Do you provide an estimate right then and there or send one afterwards?

Do you have a script, spiel or pitch that you use regularly or just shoot from the hip?

Do you compliment the roses and do small talk or keep it strictly professional?

Do you drop science or keep it basic?

Etc., etc., things like that...

I'm planning to get back into this realm sometime soon and looking for some insight. In the past I personally have taken a pretty passive approach, I usually see what the client is about and just try to go with the flow. Don't get in too deep, take some notes and send an estimate within the next 24 or so, keep it casual. It's worked well enough for me but I'm always looking to improve!
 
I just started doing quotes this past year, probably have around 40 under my belt so I'm open to advice as well, but the way I like to approach quotes can be summed up in two words: be objective! All pruning prescriptions must have an objective, and communicating clearly exactly what you're going to do and why, goes along way with meeting client expectations. Nothing frustrates me more in tree work than vague work descriptions, or the classic "ask the client when you get there" quotes. The way I write the work descriptions in the quote, anyone could come to the job and do the work without needing to call or talk to anyone (ie. including reasonable number ranges for building clearance, bringing down hedge height ect.)

As for scripts/spiels I got a couple I usually whip out when the client gives the old "my tree is too tall don't you think?" or "is it safe? " type questions, but I'm mostly shooting from the hip and again I'm always trying to push the conversations to defined objectives.

I probably drop too much science, to be honest but I'm still learning myself so I'm generally trying to share what I learn from experience/study material and that helps me learn better, so for better or for worse, people are going to hear me nerd out about trees.

Lastly I always send a quote via email, I never provide one on site, if I'm pressed for a rough estimate, I'll tell them our hourly rate, but then tell them they'll get a full quote via email withing 24 hours (or by Monday if it's on Friday).

Hoping to hear more on this subject!
 
I follow the KISS principle.

  • Stay humble.
  • Only provide credentials/insurance when requested.
  • Only sell what's within the bounds of the customers' concerns/motives/budget (unless there is a serious issue the customer should be made aware of).
  • Provide verbal estimate on site with customer option to receive emailed copy.
  • No script, keep it casual.
  • Small talk...read the room. Some people like it, others don't.
  • Never get too scientific. Explain everything in lay terms.
Also, awkward silence is a useful sales tool. Give them your price and then shut your mouth while maintaining eye contact. Assert dominance.
 
Factorxyz said:
I just started doing quotes this past year, probably have around 40 under my belt so I'm open to advice as well, but the way I like to approach quotes can be summed up in two words: be objective! All pruning prescriptions must have an objective, and communicating clearly exactly what you're going to do and why, goes along way with meeting client expectations. Nothing frustrates me more in tree work than vague work descriptions, or the classic "ask the client when you get there" quotes. The way I write the work descriptions in the quote, anyone could come to the job and do the work without needing to call or talk to anyone (ie. including reasonable number ranges for building clearance, bringing down hedge height ect.)

As for scripts/spiels I got a couple I usually whip out when the client gives the old "my tree is too tall don't you think?" or "is it safe? " type questions, but I'm mostly shooting from the hip and again I'm always trying to push the conversations to defined objectives.

I probably drop too much science, to be honest but I'm still learning myself so I'm generally trying to share what I learn from experience/study material and that helps me learn better, so for better or for worse, people are going to hear me nerd out about trees.

Lastly I always send a quote via email, I never provide one on site, if I'm pressed for a rough estimate, I'll tell them our hourly rate, but then tell them they'll get a full quote via email withing 24 hours (or by Monday if it's on Friday).

Hoping to hear more on this subject!
Click to expand...
So, I wrote over 1000 quotes last year. Maybe more, I am not certain. I am largely a full-time estimator these days, and I will share some of what I do.

I like how you started out, everything should be written in a way that the customer understands what is going to be done, and the crew can interpret it properly as well, so there are no misunderstandings.

I also have my standard lectures all saved up for when someone tells me their tree is “too tall” or they want to have it “topped”. I also learned to ask why they want to do such a thing, and what their specific concern is. Also, I will ask them to define their terms, many people use the word “topped” to mean something completely different, because they don’t know what it actually means.

Try to use words that people can understand, but don’t be afraid to drop in some science now and then, it goes a long way to prove you know what you are talking about. If they don’t quite understand everything you say, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. You are supposed to be the expert, and experts are supposed to talk with big words on occasion. Also be sure that you speak with confidence, even if you are not entirely certain what you are talking about sometimes. I heard an old salesman‘s “years ago that does prove true, “if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull“.

A touch of confident arrogance is actually not a bad thing, people expect an expert in their field to speak with a bit of confident arrogance, would you expect to go to a high-end jewelry store, and be coddled? More likely, you would be told off when you walked in the door and you would buy it from them anyway.

I always send quotes by email as well, and do not give numbers in the field. I don’t like to do that, however, I write the quote while I’m sitting in my truck in their driveway, and send it before I pull out. That make sure I don’t forget any details, and it keeps me from having hours of work when I get back to my office. I will often write 15 quotes in a day, so, there’s no way I’ll remember at all when I get back at the end of the day.

Also, every quote we send has a copy of our insurance certificates attached. That shows we actually have insurance, unlike 2/3 of the companies in this area. I’m not convinced it makes a real big difference, but it does show our legitimacy right off the start, which is important because most of our customers never actually meet with me when I’m quoting, the vast majority of my quotes written without ever seeing the customer in person.

If you have any more specific questions, please ask away, I will do my best to answer them for you.
 
Boomslang said:
I follow the KISS principle.

  • Stay humble.
  • Only provide credentials/insurance when requested.
  • Only sell what's within the bounds of the customers' concerns/motives/budget (unless there is a serious issue the customer should be made aware of).
  • Provide verbal estimate on site with customer option to receive emailed copy.
  • No script, keep it casual.
  • Small talk...read the room. Some people like it, others don't.
  • Never get too scientific. Explain everything in lay terms.
Also, awkward silence is a useful sales tool. Give them your price and then shut your mouth while maintaining eye contact. Assert dominance.
Click to expand...
This pretty much sums it up for me as well.
 
This is something I wanted to work on this year. Typically I meet with the client, keep it simple, probably way too humble, and sometimes a little too science based because that’s how my mind works. I had a few customers tell me my reviews and credentials were impeccable, however, I seemed like I didn’t even want their job. I guess I try never to see him eager.

I always wonder how much I leave on the table. I have a friend in the local industry here, and he repeatedly gets jobs where every single tree on the property gets touched. He can just upsell and upsell every single job so efficiently it blows my mind. 30 minutes before they’re done with an all day job, they tack on another $1500 removal.

I usually just try to listen to the client and only on the work they’re asking for, unless I see something very obvious or hazardous, but I’m wondering if I should be trying to sell the whole enchilada every single time.

My biggest strength and weakness is the fact that I am just an arborist, and not a salesmen. My customers really like this, but my bank account, not so much! I just honestly cannot stand the overly enthusiastic type A salesman personality. It just always raises red flags with me. They’re either desperate for work because they suck at business, or predatory monetarily speaking.

I’m just not money motivated. Unfortunately, the numbers that go into the bank account are just a byproduct of helping trees. The plus side is, I go to bed every night believing in all the work I sold and performed that week.
 
On a similar train of thought...what is your target success rate for quotes? I've heard guys say landing around 1/3 of your bids is a good ratio. Any higher and you may be pricing too low and vice versa. I think last year I was close to 50%, so I've taken that into consideration for setting my prices this year.
 
Boomslang said:
On a similar train of thought...what is your target success rate for quotes? I've heard guys say landing around 1/3 of your bids is a good ratio. Any higher and you may be pricing too low and vice versa. I think last year I was close to 50%, so I've taken that into consideration for setting my prices this year.
Click to expand...
We aim for about 40% across the board, as we have a fairly high percentage of referral based leads. As a rule, on “cold” leads, 1/3 is generally a good target.
 
In the past I've tried to get a high percentage of the jobs that I decided to bid on. I have found that pre-qualifying the client/job is really beneficial especially in the busy season. I learned some of that from my old boss Jamin. We're not a full service company and have been pretty picky about the service area and type of clients. Even just asking if they're hiring the cheapest bid weeds out a lot of tire kickers etc. In the past when I did the numbers I've been between 60% and 80% at different times. That can include return customers though, whom I actually like quoting for less then new ones.
 
I can understand @Reach calculating percentages, considering his volumes.
For a one gang outfit like mine it doesn’t work like that.
I’ll look at crappy little stuff and know I won’t get it, and I couldn’t care less.
Only 50% of jobs I go to look at I really think ‘I want this, this is what I’m geared up for’ so I really sharpen my pencil to get it.
 
I’m ok, English is my mother tongue so I’m more comfortable speaking it, but it doesn’t bother me either way.
My hired man is English, so we converse in English, but speaks ok French, much younger than me (28) so will only get better. I can leave him with French clients with no worries.
Often, but not always, if we’re talking in front of the client we will speak in French for politeness if you know what I mean.
 
Boomslang said:
I follow the KISS principle.

  • Stay humble.
  • Only provide credentials/insurance when requested.
  • Only sell what's within the bounds of the customers' concerns/motives/budget (unless there is a serious issue the customer should be made aware of).
  • Provide verbal estimate on site with customer option to receive emailed copy.
  • No script, keep it casual.
  • Small talk...read the room. Some people like it, others don't.
  • Never get too scientific. Explain everything in lay terms.
Also, awkward silence is a useful sales tool. Give them your price and then shut your mouth while maintaining eye contact. Assert dominance.
Click to expand...
I was with you all the way until the last 2 words.

I am not there to dominate anybody. I'm there to serve the client.

We so not advertise. I try to ask "what do you want" in a polite way when they call and decide if that is something we want/can do. I don't have time to spend hours and hours per week looking at something I just know we aren't going to do.

About 80-90% of the jobs I quote turn into work. Does that mean I'm bidding too low? What is the cost of cutting that number in half? Easily in the tens of thousands of dollars to cover that time. We make enough to cover expenses, put something away, and even grow a little. Is that "not enough"? It is enough for me. I do recognize it is noteworthy that we don't do big removals...and those can be harder to bid comparatively. That is just another in the list of reasons we don't do them.
 
I never upsell. That doesn't mean I don't point out something that i see that I think would benefit them. Almost apologeticly "before we go, I noticed this...I know nobody likes to take their car in for an oil change and be told there is another $1000 worth of work. But I wouldn't think much of my mechanic if my brakes failed 2 days after I left and he said "yeah, I noticed that, but didn't want to scare you away with the price"".

The difference is: I am not going to the property looking to extract more money from a client...I am looking to best serve them by making their trees better.

As to the "science" I'll tell them this is the best way to do something. If they seem interested, I will explain the why. That is probably a 50/50 mix. Some just trust the expert and frankly don't care. Not that the other 50% doesn't trust (though some don't), most of the time, they are just curious. Satisfy that curiosity with knowledge and they will certainly remember the arborist to shows them a branch collar, or why treatment A is more effective than treatment B, etc...
 
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