Sometimes I feel like this too, I have a slight fear of heights usually doesn't bother me when I climbing unless I don't completely trust the tree. Always go in with a game plan, study the trees before you go up have a ground guy you can trust to help keep an eye on things, always double check your gear buy stuff you can trust 100%, always double or triple check before you take one of your attachment points off. If doing those things can't keep you mentally comfortable, I hate to say it but Mick maybe right it's not going to be worth the longterm stress and fear taking its toll on your mind and body.
Ongoing self doubt/fear
- Thread starter Nkymatt
- Start date
- Location
- Northern Kentucky
I really appreciate all of the input. Thank you everyone.
I buy brand new gear on everything I consider life support. I have been gifted new pads for my spurs but they are solid even. I am very particular about my gear and how it’s stored to try to fight the anxiety as well.
When it comes to rock climbing I’ve not really felt this overwhelming anxiety. It’s more of a relaxing feel and I don’t really have any stress. That’s even when climbing on “trad” gear meaning places nuts and cams as I would climb for temporary protection. In that realm of climbing I haven’t really experienced much fear aside from the normal adrenaline rush.
When it comes to the trees I am fine most days but just some days put me on the ground and I just can’t find a way to cope. I rec climb around the house in trees close to some of the largest I see at work and that’s with full kit and no worries ever really.
I’ve sometimes wondered if the stress associated with production work and how the bosses give deadlines and rush the speed of the job and mess up moral in the crew. Because when I’ve done side projects or worked with friends I haven’t really had this issue but then it makes me think maybe I should just take some time on the ground and let my mind wrap around everything before I let it get to me and hurt myself or someone else
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I buy brand new gear on everything I consider life support. I have been gifted new pads for my spurs but they are solid even. I am very particular about my gear and how it’s stored to try to fight the anxiety as well.
When it comes to rock climbing I’ve not really felt this overwhelming anxiety. It’s more of a relaxing feel and I don’t really have any stress. That’s even when climbing on “trad” gear meaning places nuts and cams as I would climb for temporary protection. In that realm of climbing I haven’t really experienced much fear aside from the normal adrenaline rush.
When it comes to the trees I am fine most days but just some days put me on the ground and I just can’t find a way to cope. I rec climb around the house in trees close to some of the largest I see at work and that’s with full kit and no worries ever really.
I’ve sometimes wondered if the stress associated with production work and how the bosses give deadlines and rush the speed of the job and mess up moral in the crew. Because when I’ve done side projects or worked with friends I haven’t really had this issue but then it makes me think maybe I should just take some time on the ground and let my mind wrap around everything before I let it get to me and hurt myself or someone else
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southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Bosses' expectations are made up, and can be difficult to handle.
JCB
Branched out member
- Location
- Westport, Mass.
Quote: "The other climbers I deal with through work are very negative and try to tear you down before they offer any advice. I’ve wondered if changing companies would even help but the problem with that is the company now has full time work year round and I wouldn’t want to risk losing that by jumping around."
It's starting to sound like you might just be working with the wrong crew--and their presence and lousy attitude disconcert you. Just a thought.
The bottom line is that some of us are predisposed to be comfortable at heights and some of us are not. That doesn't mean that we all can't go on to have long and productive careers aloft...If you are suffering from anxiety and fear the first order of business is getting off any and all caffeine or other stimulants. DO NOT under-estimate the power of caffeine to wreak havoc with your nervous system and your hormones. I can't count the times I have witnessed climbers who were experiencing fear/anxiety issues get significantly better by simply removing stimulants from their life.
I'm self employed I have 2 other guys that work with me, more partners than employees as pay is pretty much percentage based for all of us I do make more but I'm the primary climber and own the chipper and most of the equipment. We never rush more than feels comfortable never take risks we don't need to and if it's too much we just don't do the job. I wouldn't work for someone that pushed me to work faster than I'm comfortable with I'm pretty quick while taking my time when needed and planning all my moves before I start. I recently started contract climbing for another guy but he doesn't seem like the kind who's going to push, neither of us are inclined to bid jobs so low we have to. If you're comfortable most of the time but get pushed to work faster than is safe for you and you're a relatively good climber I'd start looking for a new place to work.
- Location
- Northern Kentucky
Again, I am so appreciative of all of the responses and support. After talking to the wife about everything going on and getting advice from everyone I am going to look into other companies that aren’t always rushing and keep safety as a priority. Also keep working at cutting down caffeine and talk to a professional about managing the fear and anxiety. I love this work but it’s hard to on the days that it really gets to me but I’m going to keep pushing through and get to where I can make things work for me.
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JontreeHI
Branched out member
- Location
- West Michigan lakeshore
Lots of great stuff here, cutting caffeine, working with people better than you etc, all really great. Another tactic for me at various stages in my career is to break the tasks down into individual tasks
Example:
Big scary tree—full removal seems overwhelming.
Can I ascend into the tree? Yes I can. Ok now I’m up, where is the first cut? Can I safely travel and make that first cut? Yes I can. Ok, where is the next cut? Can I make that cut confidently. Yes I can.
I’ve watched other climbers , @RyanCafferky included, do that entire process on the ground, silently in his head, before ascending, and that has given me a lot of confidence.
“A meal is made up of several small bites”. I think Abraham Lincoln said that.
Anyone who says they are never scared at work is a liar. But fear isn’t the be all end all
Example:
Big scary tree—full removal seems overwhelming.
Can I ascend into the tree? Yes I can. Ok now I’m up, where is the first cut? Can I safely travel and make that first cut? Yes I can. Ok, where is the next cut? Can I make that cut confidently. Yes I can.
I’ve watched other climbers , @RyanCafferky included, do that entire process on the ground, silently in his head, before ascending, and that has given me a lot of confidence.
“A meal is made up of several small bites”. I think Abraham Lincoln said that.
Anyone who says they are never scared at work is a liar. But fear isn’t the be all end all
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
This is a double edged sword.. I literally self medicate with caffeine as it’s more tolerable than other meds which have a paradoxical effect.
Yes I do get stimulated by caffeine, but I’m able to maintain focus easier. While I can have anxiety from it, overall I’m much more calm.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
@Nkymatt said:
"I rec climb around the house in trees close to some of the largest I see at work and that’s with full kit and no worries ever really.
I’ve sometimes wondered if the stress (is) associated with production work and how the bosses give deadlines and rush the speed of the job and mess up moral in the crew. Because when I’ve done side projects or worked with friends I haven’t really had this issue."
To me, you just figured out what the problem is. You seem absolutely comfortable to me working at height, as long as you feel you can take the time you need to think things through.
I am not now nor have I ever have been a production climber, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
In my humble opinion, pushing a climber to work faster to meet some artificial deadline is a great way to get someone killed. It is a "moral hazard" issue. The guy doing the pushing is not the guy who will die if something goes bad wrong. He'll just yell "Next! I need a new climber!".
There is a saying, "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
I can play a decent game of chess, if you give me the time to think about my moves. If you were to tell me I had to play speed chess, in which I had only a short time to think things through for each move, I would be much more likely to make mistakes and to lose pieces. I think this is what is going on with you. Only in your case, you won't lose a chess piece; you could lose your life. So it is rational to feel anxiety in such a situation, in my humble opinion.
My opinion: Either work at your own pace, and ignore the outside pressure from the bosses, and see if it's worth it to them to keep you around under those limitations, or find another outfit that can bid jobs so that they don't have to push people to try to kill themselves. Either way, I would not permit yourself to be pushed for speed while working at height any longer. To me, that is the key issue.
If you read any of the posts about people looking for good climbers, it seems they are not easy to find. I think they'd be smart to want to keep you.
Another thought that occurs to me is the idea of starting your own business. Then you have no boss but yourself, and you are doing the bidding for the work. I think @southsoundtree might be a great guy to hit up for advice on that score, as he is a one man show, I think, who manages to keep working, and I think stay fairly close to home. Ask him how he built up his client list.
I'm rambling on too long here. Good luck with whatever direction you choose to take. Tim
"I rec climb around the house in trees close to some of the largest I see at work and that’s with full kit and no worries ever really.
I’ve sometimes wondered if the stress (is) associated with production work and how the bosses give deadlines and rush the speed of the job and mess up moral in the crew. Because when I’ve done side projects or worked with friends I haven’t really had this issue."
To me, you just figured out what the problem is. You seem absolutely comfortable to me working at height, as long as you feel you can take the time you need to think things through.
I am not now nor have I ever have been a production climber, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
In my humble opinion, pushing a climber to work faster to meet some artificial deadline is a great way to get someone killed. It is a "moral hazard" issue. The guy doing the pushing is not the guy who will die if something goes bad wrong. He'll just yell "Next! I need a new climber!".
There is a saying, "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
I can play a decent game of chess, if you give me the time to think about my moves. If you were to tell me I had to play speed chess, in which I had only a short time to think things through for each move, I would be much more likely to make mistakes and to lose pieces. I think this is what is going on with you. Only in your case, you won't lose a chess piece; you could lose your life. So it is rational to feel anxiety in such a situation, in my humble opinion.
My opinion: Either work at your own pace, and ignore the outside pressure from the bosses, and see if it's worth it to them to keep you around under those limitations, or find another outfit that can bid jobs so that they don't have to push people to try to kill themselves. Either way, I would not permit yourself to be pushed for speed while working at height any longer. To me, that is the key issue.
If you read any of the posts about people looking for good climbers, it seems they are not easy to find. I think they'd be smart to want to keep you.
Another thought that occurs to me is the idea of starting your own business. Then you have no boss but yourself, and you are doing the bidding for the work. I think @southsoundtree might be a great guy to hit up for advice on that score, as he is a one man show, I think, who manages to keep working, and I think stay fairly close to home. Ask him how he built up his client list.
I'm rambling on too long here. Good luck with whatever direction you choose to take. Tim
JCB
Branched out member
- Location
- Westport, Mass.
While caffeine may be innocuous, and even moderating, for many folks, it is undeniably a counterproductive addictive substance for many others. Every time I have given up coffee for three weeks or more, I have entered into a newfound relaxed state.
I have many food allergies as well, so I know what an emotional/physical rollercoaster that something as simple as wheat can induce in folks who are sensitive to it. As with all elimination diets, one does not know the full extent of what a substance does to them until they avoid it for at least four days, and preferable longer.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Interesting post, @JCB. Thanks for taking the time. Tim
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Totally hear you. Just speaking for myself on this one, that it’s a give and take situation. One benefit is sacrificing something else.
- Location
- Western PA
So I’m curious to see what everyone has to say about it, but I have to wonder if perhaps something like a CBD vape would help. So far I haven’t had much trouble controlling fear and anxiety in the trees (aside from the day I over-exerted myself just getting up there), but I’ve also been using CBD for awhile. I did a lot of experimenting early on with CBD products, being they are Federally legal (not all states agree though, so check first) and you may have to check with your employer as it may throw a false positive (probably not for zero THC stuff, but there are legal CBD products that are more likely to result in false positive) depending on what you use, but that aside… I found that CBD gummies and tincture (the zero THC stuff, non Delta 8 or Delta 10, just straight CBD) helped some with smoothing out the anxiety of life without messing with your head. I then tried CBD vape juice with no THC and liked it better for anxiety because a couple hits and a few minutes of rest and everything calmed. It wasn’t what I had been looking to achieve, but it was a worthy find for me. One of my friends who has been diagnosed with anxiety issues found that it worked really well for him and let him get away from medication. So maybe it’s something to look into or try?
What I had really been looking for with CBD was to see if I could get some relief for my bad hip. I did manage to find some that works, but what is most effective is the actual CBD hemp bud. Apparently natural form is what works best when pain is involved. Delta 8 and Delta 10 also work, but with being a legal form of THC, it can mess with your head pretty easily. I feel like any of that stuff is kinda treading a little more dangerously because it’s so close to what isn’t legal. I’ve been assured that drug testing can be done that specific, but the common positive/negative tests aren’t specific enough. The non-THC stuff should be entirely safe though.
Who you work for and work with can definitely influence things too, I know I do better when I’m not being rushed and have coworkers that I get along well with, so I have to agree, no matter what, that may be a big part of what you’re dealing with. Especially if it’s not a problem rec climbing.
What I had really been looking for with CBD was to see if I could get some relief for my bad hip. I did manage to find some that works, but what is most effective is the actual CBD hemp bud. Apparently natural form is what works best when pain is involved. Delta 8 and Delta 10 also work, but with being a legal form of THC, it can mess with your head pretty easily. I feel like any of that stuff is kinda treading a little more dangerously because it’s so close to what isn’t legal. I’ve been assured that drug testing can be done that specific, but the common positive/negative tests aren’t specific enough. The non-THC stuff should be entirely safe though.
Who you work for and work with can definitely influence things too, I know I do better when I’m not being rushed and have coworkers that I get along well with, so I have to agree, no matter what, that may be a big part of what you’re dealing with. Especially if it’s not a problem rec climbing.
Stumpsprouts
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Asheville
I think it’s sort of like treating a tree for a pest or fungus that may be a secondary stress and not taking care of the primary stress. It may be a good option to have when outside herbs / drugs are called for, but not a substitute for actually dealing with deep personal issues, or environmental factors like this terrible work culture the OP is describing.
Zebco Kid
Branched out member
- Location
- Ashland, Oregon
Reach,
The guy who taught me how to climb (I'm recreational) who is a professional arborist echoed your caffeine sentiment. He said even though he's been climbing for years, he avoids caffeine when climbing. Simply makes him nervous/jittery.
ZK
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
two things that scare me.
1. High tip with heavy load over centre where I am working/loading and 2. relying on one tie in.
To remedy I reduce the load and or tie back that tip and add a third tip. Really never have to worry because there is a back up for the back up.
Never going down. Knock on wood.
Reminded oneself, if you are unfamiliar with the wood/species best to grab limbs or bits you have removed or pruned and try breaking them with your weight or all the force you can muster. add to your knowledge bank of self preservation.
also remember the trees have survived or withstood many tremendous forces/moma nature.
Lastly put on smile and splash water on your face and neck and enjoy the view hopefully the work you are doing will the tree to withstand many more weather extremes so you can do it again in 5 to 10yrs.
The problem with hemp and/or marijuana products is that they can trigger a big histamine/ mast-cell response in some people, which can cause serious anxiety issues... Tread lightly until you know that it agrees with you.
An herb that can works wonders for some with anxiety issues is holy basil.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
And I’ve heard very stark warnings about St John’s wort. Herbals don’t work the same way for everyone, and can have some severe paradoxical effects
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Light 14 or 16" narrow kerf bar for 200t or 201t- Started by southsoundtree
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