Ongoing self doubt/fear

N

Nkymatt

Location
Northern Kentucky
I have been climbing trees for work for almost 2 and a half years. I have much more experience than that with rock climbing. I early on in work climbing I felt lots of doubt and fear of tree or equipment failure. I’ve studied tree equipment and break tests and all kinds of different things to learn to trust the gear more. I go rec climbing when I get the chance and do everything I can to get more comfortable but I still have a lot of days where I just can’t feel confident in the tree. Or even with our spider lift I have had days where I can’t get past the mental image of a major failure wether it be caused by me or a outside factor. And it’s not just on big trees. The company I work for does some pretty large removals with and without a crane but we also do small work and I get really tripped up on both. I have my own kit and I follow all of the safety measures like tying in twice to cut and using two hands on the saw when necessary. I love this kind of work and I’m very financially invested but I keep asking myself is this something I can keep doing, am I really cut out to do this. I guess my question is, does anyone else experience this? And if so how do you get past this? Is this something that will hold me back forever?


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It happens to me sometimes, and sometimes rather badly as I have anxiety issues on a good day. Sometimes I just have to push through it, use some logic to tell myself that I’m really fine and nothing is going wrong, and that helps.

I also find that caffeine will cause it, every single time. If I’m leaving the ground on a given day, I avoid caffeine for at least 24 hours beforehand. That makes a tremendous difference for me.
 
Thank you for the response. I deal with anxiety also but it’s crazy how bad it can get some days. And the other climbers at work act like this is something that doesn’t happen to anyone. I try to push through the best I can because I obviously have to get the job done but I have had days so bad that I have to come to the ground and take a long breathe and calm down because it gets so difficult.

I try to limit caffeine already due to anxiety but I may just have to try to cut it out more so. I try to eat a healthy diet and have seen it improve my mood but no real response to fears yet.

I also try to pray for safety before getting into the tree as a routine to remember I have that support as well but it just overcomes me some days too far and I have to let my mind reset.


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Nkymatt said:
Thank you for the response. I deal with anxiety also but it’s crazy how bad it can get some days. And the other climbers at work act like this is something that doesn’t happen to anyone. I try to push through the best I can because I obviously have to get the job done but I have had days so bad that I have to come to the ground and take a long breathe and calm down because it gets so difficult.

I try to limit caffeine already due to anxiety but I may just have to try to cut it out more so. I try to eat a healthy diet and have seen it improve my mood but no real response to fears yet.

I also try to pray for safety before getting into the tree as a routine to remember I have that support as well but it just overcomes me some days too far and I have to let my mind reset.


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Definitely keep praying, that will help more than anything! Talk to your pastor too, he may be able to help you work through this.

Cutting out caffeine completely may make a difference, and you might look into a vitamin B supplement, I occasionally take one called Mega-B Stress that seems to help.

Others here have had these struggles too, and I’m sure there are other recommendations coming. Do some searching through the archives too, you may find some answers there.
 
It sounds as though you may be suffering from the effects of Proximity Heuristic, which basically means that your brain weights an occurrence which you can vividly imagine, as being more likely. This is why people tend to have an outgrown fear of plane crashes and of trees falling on them, although these events actually happens very rarely. When they do, however, photos are all over the news, so that imagery is available for recall.

If you're not paralyzed with fear when pulling onto a road in a vehicle. (which has a significantly higher risk of injury or death), but become over anxious at the thought of going aloft, then you may be suffering from proximity heuristic. When an image of tree or equipment failure comes to mind, and you're actually using equipment or are in a tree, those dots are very close and easily connected by your brain and can overcome you.

Sometimes just recognizing the source of your anxiety can help to neutralize or reduce it. Aside from that, you may want to seek the help of a professional to aid you in desensitizing yourself. Absolutely no shame in that. After all, your clients came to you because they wanted professional help with their trees.

I wish you every success in overcoming this problem.
 

I got scared out of nowhere... Seeking advice.

So yesterday I was climbing a fairly large cherry on a land clearing job, it ate both of my throw balls so I had to climb it because it had to much lean in the opposite direction to fell with out a pull line. It wasn't in bad shape I knew it was stable and safe to climb, but for some reason the...
www.treebuzz.com

This, and post #4 from @Leroy on that thread links to a handful of other threads dealing with climber fear / anxiety.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/am-i-the-only-one-who-gets-this-scared.36084/

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/scared.1016/

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/climb-scared.39508/

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/all-of-sudden-scared.36873/

And there have been a few threads since. It practically deserves its own forum.

https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/tree-work-is-not-for-everyone…-the-importance-of-listening-to-your-minds-voice.45403/

Anxiety / Hesitancy about Climbing Bigger and Taller Trees

I consider myself a competent climber. I trust in my ability and knowledge. But I still struggle with more anxiety / nervousness in bigger trees. When I first started climbing in my yard years ago recreationally when I was first learning before I started doing tree care, I used to climb to the...
www.treebuzz.com

What you are going through is not uncommon. I’ve gotten some good advice from lurking those threads and have been right there with you. Good luck!
 
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Nkymatt said:
I have been climbing trees for work for almost 2 and a half years. I have much more experience than that with rock climbing. I early on in work climbing I felt lots of doubt and fear of tree or equipment failure. I’ve studied tree equipment and break tests and all kinds of different things to learn to trust the gear more. I go rec climbing when I get the chance and do everything I can to get more comfortable but I still have a lot of days where I just can’t feel confident in the tree. Or even with our spider lift I have had days where I can’t get past the mental image of a major failure wether it be caused by me or a outside factor. And it’s not just on big trees. The company I work for does some pretty large removals with and without a crane but we also do small work and I get really tripped up on both. I have my own kit and I follow all of the safety measures like tying in twice to cut and using two hands on the saw when necessary. I love this kind of work and I’m very financially invested but I keep asking myself is this something I can keep doing, am I really cut out to do this. I guess my question is, does anyone else experience this? And if so how do you get past this? Is this something that will hold me back forever?


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Happens to me EVERY DAY! The most exhausting part of my day is the mental battle of pushing myself to do hard things. I’ve been in the industry for 10 years and it’s still a challenge.
 
I’ve been in the tree business for 25+ years and did a lot of rock climbing for years as well. Fear is what keeps you alive in both of those realms. I used to be completely paralyzed by social anxiety. It was so bad for a while that I couldn’t even go to a restaurant or I left carts of food in the grocery store because I couldn’t go through the checkout line. At some point I realized that my fear was not rational and I MADE myself push through it by desensitizing myself to it and talking myself through various situations. I did the same thing when I started rock climbing and tree climbing.

Even today sometimes it still happens in a tree. Usually I am the most experienced person on the crew by a long shot and often I am working as a contract climber specifically brought in to deal with a tree or a situation nobody else wants to deal with. Sometimes I will get up into a tree and think to myself “this is really messed up and how did someone decide that I am the right person to deal with this.” When I start having those thoughts I just work backwards through the problem. I don’t think to the end. I just think about where I am right in that moment and what I need to do to keep myself and everyone else safe and the job moving forward. Then I think about the plan and go over whether it is it a good plan or whether I need to make adjustments based on the factors we are presented with. Rationalizing your way through various problems and fears and just breaking them down to every necessary small step and then just working through those steps is usually the best way forward.
 
I really appreciate all of you. So much support that I really was not expecting. I’m going to search through the threads and look into talking to someone about coping strategies if I still struggle. Usually we only have one climber on each job so when I run into these problems I’m alone on dealing with it so I try my best to find a way through the situation but it gets me shaking so much that I can manage to climb or cut safety or I just keep thinking that I have to get to the ground before the worse case scenario happens. I will keep pushing through the best I can and just try to keep my head in check.


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RyanCafferky said:
I’ve been in the tree business for 25+ years and did a lot of rock climbing for years as well. Fear is what keeps you alive in both of those realms. I used to be completely paralyzed by social anxiety. It was so bad for a while that I couldn’t even go to a restaurant or I left carts of food in the grocery store because I couldn’t go through the checkout line. At some point I realized that my fear was not rational and I MADE myself push through it by desensitizing myself to it and talking myself through various situations. I did the same thing when I started rock climbing and tree climbing.

Even today sometimes it still happens in a tree. Usually I am the most experienced person on the crew by a long shot and often I am working as a contract climber specifically brought in to deal with a tree or a situation nobody else wants to deal with. Sometimes I will get up into a tree and think to myself “this is really messed up and how did someone decide that I am the right person to deal with this.” When I start having those thoughts I just work backwards through the problem. I don’t think to the end. I just think about where I am right in that moment and what I need to do to keep myself and everyone else safe and the job moving forward. Then I think about the plan and go over whether it is it a good plan or whether I need to make adjustments based on the factors we are presented with. Rationalizing your way through various problems and fears and just breaking them down to every necessary small step and then just working through those steps is usually the best way forward.
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This!
I guess I have the same wiring, and it is actually what I love about tree work. It becomes the ultimate mediation, where nothing else in the world matter outside of the tangible moment. No extra thoughts, no distractions, that argument with the loved one, all goes silent for a few hours at least..
 
FYI: sometimes all I need is another climber on-site to help boost my confidence. I distinctly remember one time in particular I was 60’ up in a Red Oak. I needed to make a reduction cut on a long limb over a house. I only got 1/4 of the way out on the limb. I considered making the cut there but knew it was too big to rig out and wouldn’t be a good reduction cut location. I couldn’t get myself to limb walk out any farther. I called my boss. He came by and just having him on the ground talking me through the limb walk helped me get way out there and make a safe and appropriate cut.
 
I really feel this is going to be something I’ll have to push through to find solutions I can handle on my own or through the help of the forums or a professional. The other climbers I deal with through work are very negative and try to tear you down before they offer any advice. I’ve wondered if changing companies would even help but the problem with that is the company now has full time work year round and I wouldn’t want to risk losing that by jumping around.

Going into this week I’m going to try to take my time and keep in mind that I just need to push through slowly but safely. Read through all of the links and try to find what I can that works for me.

Thank you again everyone


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Nkymatt said:
The other climbers I deal with through work are very negative and try to tear you down before they offer any advice.
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Leave them behind when you get the opportunity. No sense in being around that any longer than absolutely necessary.

Lots of inner work to do as you mention. One external help I’ve used is kava tincture- I take it at night sometimes. It quiets the anxious part of my brain. Not a substitute for the real work, of course.
 
Nkymatt said:
I really feel this is going to be something I’ll have to push through to find solutions I can handle on my own or through the help of the forums or a professional. The other climbers I deal with through work are very negative and try to tear you down before they offer any advice. I’ve wondered if changing companies would even help but the problem with that is the company now has full time work year round and I wouldn’t want to risk losing that by jumping around.

Going into this week I’m going to try to take my time and keep in mind that I just need to push through slowly but safely. Read through all of the links and try to find what I can that works for me.

Thank you again everyone


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Move onto a new work environment.

Think about being around people that challenge you in positive ways by showing you what is possible but not tearing you down because you aren’t at their level.

Think about way back when Tony Hawk did the first 900 in competition. It blew minds. Now a kid has done a 1080. Sometimes watching people do things that look impossible to you opens your mind to what is possible. For me, the thing that has always pushed me to improve and push through fear often is being around people better than me in a supportive environment. Climbing competitions, attending hands on arborist trainings like Arbormaster or NATS put on, or just being in a work environment with really good climbers has always helped me dig deeper in myself because I see them do something better and I realize it isn’t that far out of my reach. Practice techniques outside of the work environment. Repetition of any skill leads to a much greater level of comfort.

Also, don’t limit yourself by letting yourself be held back by people that don’t want you to be better or are served by you not advancing. And don’t allow your personal growth be held back by fear of lack of full time employment. You getting over this fear will lead you to new and better opportunities whether in your home market or in new markets. Me getting over my fears has taken me to places I never would have imagined and if I keep pushing into fears I still have, I will go to new even more amazing places in all facets of life.
 
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reg coates has a (in my opinion) very good video about anxiety/fear.

i try to embrace my anxiety, it helps me keep alert. i think you are cutout for this job because of it.

friedrich
 
I have struggled with this at times and still sometimes do.

A healthy amount of respect for the hazards and or a little anxiety might actually keep you focused and sharp. Too much and it can hinder your ability to safely do your job.

Working on trying to deal with the mental barriers you are facing takes time, patience, and determination. Climb outside of an actual work setting where you can take your time, slow things down, etc. Face the things you are afraid of in a controlled environment without getting so far out of your comfort zone at once that it actually becomes dangerous and you start getting overwhelmed with fear / anxiety.

And now I’m gonna say an obvious fact and I’m definitely not trying to discourage you here, but tree work isn’t for everyone. If you find you can’t get over this anxiety / fear, you’ve got to really consider do you want to be going into to work everyday scared and anxious? Be real with yourself. There’s no shame in it. When we climb and do this work we are putting ourselves in a potentially dangerous situation and our body and mind initiate the fight or flight response to keep us safe. The difference is how everyone reacts to dangerous situations and how great of a response is triggered or how they are able to control that response so it doesn’t overwhelm them.

Or maybe certain aspects of tree work aren’t for you, that doesn’t mean it’s an either or.

Personally I’ve done large removals, crane work, etc. but found I’m more comfortable and have less anxiety / fear doing pruning work. So I’ve built my business around that. I also do shrubs and hedges. Occasionally a small-medium removal here and there. But I focus more on what I enjoy and what I’m most comfortable with. At some point I may start doing larger removals again or I may not. Or I may hire someone to do it.

This might be something for you to consider, that maybe you only climb and do the things you are comfortable with. In other words, you are finding your niche if you will.

Not everyone has to be the climber that does anything and everything. But only you can figure out what is right for you.

One other thing I want to add is anxiety / stress in other areas of your life could cause more anxiety / nervousness while doing tree work. Also, for some people caffeine / alcohol consumption may cause an increase in anxiety. Just some things to keep in mind.

Keep posting, reach out through PM’s if you need to, but definitely understand you are not alone in this.
 
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@Nkymatt;
I'm just curious to know whether or not you felt this same kind or level of anxiety when you were doing rock climbing? If not, can you figure out why that might be the case?
I loved the things that @RyanCafferky had to say about dealing with his social anxiety at the grocery store.

I think multiple people have talked about desensitization. I think they're on the right track with this. Research the topic of "systematic desensitization" using a search engine. People have anxiety about a lot of different things, and the approach of systematic desensitization can be of help to all of them, I think. I wish you great success in your efforts. Tim
 
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