Why 1/3 notch depth?

Daniel said:
There you go doing homework on me again... don't you have anything better to do?
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I guess I could put "previously" ISA certified, but I doubt anyone cares.. except you fo course ;)

People care, and technically anytime you use the logo you have to couple it with your name and cert #.

how about you? are you certified???

Yup, cause its the only thing we got.

Do you think it has value..

Not much but anyone who mildly gives a f, and has a pulse should have it..

do you think you need or become a better arborist by becoming certified?

No, and Yes, or is it Yes and No? Am I a better arborist because of it, "No", do I need it to be proceeved as a better arborist (or even an arborist at all?), unfortunately yes.
but why advertise otherwise? This had been brought up in the past, quite a few years ago if you cared about anything ethical you know better and would have changed it.

I don't care much for the ISA these days... how about you?

My feelings are mixed, I'd give em a overall of a 4.. But if a 4 is the best we got the argument is "better than nothin" aka Biden vs Trump.. Sell that snake oil.
 
evo said:
While your at that article please include a letter to the ISA explaining why they forgot your honorary life long certificate?

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I have complained about that as well, as it bothers me greatly also. While I do not put a lot of stock in the Certified Arborist credential, many homeowners do and I feel they are being defrauded when they view that site and hire the Arborist-that-isn’t.

This is especially bothersome to me, because our service areas overlap, and we may be losing work due to this false representation. I wish the ISA would do something to enforce their credentials or advertisements that purport to have a credential that does not exist, but they seem to have no interest.
 
There is no one at the ISA that is qualified to certify me in how I prune or remove trees. They are 10 years behind the Europeans. I'm 5 years ahead...

LOL seriously I love to get you guys going... as far as ethics go, I couldn't care less about your petty squabbling. ALL I CARE ABOUT is doing the right thing in the eyes of God... When it's time for a life review, as we all will get, NFW will I be feeling bad about forgetting to pull the ISA cert credential from the website.

It's how we treat other people that counts... My x told me her recently deceased father came to her in a dream and apologized for the way he treated her. God allowed him to feel what she had been feeling as a result of his actions. That's all I care about... in the meantime, I welcome a call from the ISA.. I'd be happy to tell them why I didn't test again recently.. they jacked the price.. bloated self-serving administration. I should make some videos about that. I'll be sure to correct the website.. calling myself a previously two-time certified arborist before I do...

As far as competition with other companies.. I always found the only person I ever had to worry about was myself. It s what I DO that counts regardless of what anyone else is doing.
 
Daniel said:
There is no one at the ISA that is qualified to certify me in how I prune or remove trees. They are 10 years behind the Europeans. I'm 5 years ahead...

LOL seriously I love to get you guys going... as far as ethics go, I couldn't care less about your petty squabbling. ALL I CARE ABOUT is doing the right thing in the eyes of God... When it's time for a life review, as we all will get, NFW will I be feeling bad about forgetting to pull the ISA cert credential from the website.

It's how we treat other people that counts... My x told me her recently deceased father came to her in a dream and apologized for the way he treated her. God allowed him to feel what she had been feeling as a result of his actions. That's all I care about... in the meantime, I welcome a call from the ISA.. I'd be happy to tell them why I didn't test again recently.. they jacked the price.. bloated self-serving administration. I should make some videos about that. I'll be sure to correct the website.. calling myself a previously two-time certified arborist before I do...

As far as competition with other companies.. I always found the only person I ever had to worry about was myself. It s what I DO that counts regardless of what anyone else is doing.
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You don’t seem to understand the ISA credential or how to “do the right thing in the eyes of God.” Once you pass the ISA exam there is no retesting, you simply submit some paperwork over the course of 3 years demonstrating you’re a continual learner and pay a small fee. It doesn’t take that much effort; I know a fraction of what you and the rest of the people on here know about trees and I seem to manage keeping my credential.

“I will search for faithful people to be my companions. Only those who are above reproach will be allowed to serve me.”
‭‭Psalms‬ 101:6

Claiming to have a credential that you technically don’t have is not “above reproach.”
 
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Chris Schultz said:
I don’t really care about your political opinions or any of your opinions about the ISA, what you doing @Daniel is false advertising. If your opinion of them is so shitty, why do you feel the need to even say “previously” or “passed” certified on your website. For anyone that cares to:

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Apparently ISA means something to you because you advertise it
Why not say former ISA?

And I’m not judging you but doesn’t your religious beliefs encourage the TRUTH

Or are you a former religious person?
 
Along the lines of notch knowledge, anyone have wisdom for drop control when aloft, particularly to the end of releasing at a time conducive to laying a top flat or jumping it -without- a pull rope. This comes from watching another climber notch a recently dead ash somewheres above the eaves trough line of a shed the tree stem was touching, intending for the top to fall completely away from the shed. He preened and tuned his notch about 3 iterations and promptly landed 2 feet of the stem on the shingles. :( I couldn't convince myself off the top of my head what his suitable cut should have been. Aloft Humboldt(?) Other?

By the way, I now recall this screw up included a pull rope, pulleyed system. Tight residential back yard.

Apologies if this is not quite on topic, but I figure it's close.
 
Bart_ said:
Along the lines of notch knowledge, anyone have wisdom for drop control when aloft, particularly to the end of releasing at a time conducive to laying a top flat or jumping it -without- a pull rope. This comes from watching another climber notch a recently dead ash somewheres above the eaves trough line of a shed the tree stem was touching, intending for the top to fall completely away from the shed. He preened and tuned his notch about 3 iterations and promptly landed 2 feet of the stem on the shingles. :( I couldn't convince myself off the top of my head what his suitable cut should have been. Aloft Humboldt(?) Other?

By the way, I now recall this screw up included a pull rope, pulleyed system. Tight residential back yard.

Apologies if this is not quite on topic, but I figure it's close.
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That one sounds like the top was too long, sounds like the tips touched first and the whole thing kicked backwards. A humboldt can help impart forward momentum, but if you’re too close to the ground for the piece you’re cutting, it will still kick back.

I miscalculated on a large limb last year and it kicked back thumped the side of a shed near ground level. Had I made my cut 6” further out, we would not have had to pay for a shed repair…
 
Bart_ said:
Along the lines of notch knowledge, anyone have wisdom for drop control when aloft, particularly to the end of releasing at a time conducive to laying a top flat or jumping it -without- a pull rope. This comes from watching another climber notch a recently dead ash somewheres above the eaves trough line of a shed the tree stem was touching, intending for the top to fall completely away from the shed. He preened and tuned his notch about 3 iterations and promptly landed 2 feet of the stem on the shingles. :( I couldn't convince myself off the top of my head what his suitable cut should have been. Aloft Humboldt(?) Other?

By the way, I now recall this screw up included a pull rope, pulleyed system. Tight residential back yard.

Apologies if this is not quite on topic, but I figure it's close.
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In conifer land it all comes down to humblt or conventional. As well as steepness of angle of the (face open face), annnndd depth….
A narrow semi 1/3 cut on a top can make it jump a surprising distance from 100+ plus up. Enough to clear small houses if any one dared it. A fairly shallow high angle face, with a well timed back cut, hang saw, hands on the butt and a flick push can get the top to flip and jump to save the prized rhodie planted underneath (tippy tippy top might slap the rhodie but the butt would destroy it). Or it might just be to get the butt facing the chipper for a easy pull drag vs wrestling and dragging many small limbs!
Same with the wood, but deep deep notches in unison with the height of the tree! One can get logs to spin 90 degrees with practice.
 
Bart_ said:
Along the lines of notch knowledge, anyone have wisdom for drop control when aloft, particularly to the end of releasing at a time conducive to laying a top flat or jumping it -without- a pull rope. This comes from watching another climber notch a recently dead ash somewheres above the eaves trough line of a shed the tree stem was touching, intending for the top to fall completely away from the shed. He preened and tuned his notch about 3 iterations and promptly landed 2 feet of the stem on the shingles. :( I couldn't convince myself off the top of my head what his suitable cut should have been. Aloft Humboldt(?) Other?

By the way, I now recall this screw up included a pull rope, pulleyed system. Tight residential back yard.

Apologies if this is not quite on topic, but I figure it's close.
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Mr. Beranek has simply the most comprehensive instructions on this to include all the factors to consider.
I find his “Ratio Factors”. Pg 221 The Fundamentals of General Tree Work to be the most useful factor for what you are describing.

Tony

image.jpg
 
TYSM, forgot about that page in Fundamentals !
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The close to hop/pop can't be dainty, but rather daring. To get the response of the force out; must slap the force purposefully into the 'step'/stop like getting greater response from rubber ball against step/wall. Soft close, pause and slide off the step is not what are looking for.
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Not sure what are looking for in the shallow face BC question, but from materials side(besides CoG, pivot, tension already shown):
i 'see' BC when separation of layers; seems to find some differentiated position of hard bone to leathery outer layers to separate between. Very shallow face would seem to hyper load forward right to these younger layers that sometimes are trimmed from sides to not get too leathery a hold for miss-steering to one side. Here would seem could get that is all the type fibers used as barrel right into, to more invite separation ?
Other aggravating features of shallow face are not as stone/bone rigid pivot position and thicker/slower backcut relief, loss of side2side control leverage across facing.
Force imagery is still to spike at start/pulse as like voltage spike of turning on light, waves rushing in etc. where the flowing force wants to do/change something in it's immediate rush. This initial change/spike carries that impact into works very suddenly X our hyperLoads. To this same imagery i really like 'stress riser' ty @Bart_ for this flooding in of force into reduced and or stoppered space.
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If don't want to play the ISA game, shouldn't play the ISA game; not much even the first card that other's pay for.
Perhaps more leeway pass given if painted on side of truck a little too long, than so editable on a site.
Might even look at it like shouldn't wear colors that aren't yours; nor have MD after name as rather enthusiastically protected territories.
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Part of geek culture is Gary Kildall author of cp/m(pre-DOS, claims of theft by IBM/MS to make DOS), 'fell' in a biker bar wearing colors, almost ending an era if had happened earlier to this pioneer.
 
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Tony, it wasn't a log section, it was the entire top of the tree. As far as I know, different animals. I'd say the top was about 2x longer than the remaining trunk(cut height) based on it fit in the yard just barely. Was probably a safety tie or a tad of a back leaner too i.e. the rope/pulleys. Was a slow pull till it went on its own.
 
Bart_ said:
Tony, it wasn't a log section, it was the entire top of the tree. As far as I know, different animals. I'd say the top was about 2x longer than the remaining trunk(cut height) based on it fit in the yard just barely. Was probably a safety tie or a tad of a back leaner too i.e. the rope/pulleys. Was a slow pull till it went on its own.
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Bart,

Thanks for the clarification. I would agree with Reach’s assessment that the tips hit first, unless the cut was over the roof!

Evo got it with a conventional face or a humbolt. My preference would be a conventional or slightly narrower with a snipe. I always end up with bypass on humbolts. But that is a me thing.

Having said all that it is easy to armchair arborist this piece to the ground. Me thinks the face was too open. Furthermore, if it was EAB killed ash, the hinge wood on any face/ back cut combo would be suspect.


my .02

Tony

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I think choosing a face cut is akin to choosing the best way to tie something off with rope. We have knots, hit hes, and bends. They all rely on specific principles.

Amd like a hinge, we also have to consider not just how they hold, but how they will release. The more I understood the principles of rope work, the easier it became to choose what was appropriate.

I might also say, if someone were taught (no pun intended) the principles of knots without actually learning any specific ones, they may likely be able to design a knot out of their own mind that already exists and has a name.

With hinging, we have the added dynamoc components of motion. But with a solid understanding of the principles, one can begin to face things with more intention for each specific scenario.
 
Fiber - I think it was recent dead so it wasn't brittle. Bit chewy. It was cut above the eavestrough height for practical reasons and of course the understood eff up was the tips contacted first or at a position where the butt hadn't cleared away from the roof. I think with all the preening it was a wide notch, no vertical face just normal meet up.

So as a suppose scenario, go with recent dead ash bit chewy what's the appropriate cut. Geometry as described. Just an aloft humboldt? Or? no leaves.

Oceans - going back a ways, I refer to my wrench tether as an Oceans tether and I caused consternation at a local shop when I made such reference. Young kids don't know their history :)
 
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