Do you let customers help with work?

[tomstrees]

I had a couple log splitting jobs recently where the customers came out to help, is this not a good thing or should it be permitted in some situations? I'm seeing this more often during the covid restrictions.

Customer one didn't really do that much just fed me some wood I was splitting in the last hour or so. Customer 2 also fed wood to me, the guy runs his own company and likes to work out. Then we had some big pine in back he wanted split which was a royal pain, he apparently did not want to pay to have it dumpstered away. I have another customer who I met today who just wants me to cut up some fallen oak trees and he said he would do the rest, no risk there.

 

[Jonny]

Unless it’s as a favor to a friend or family member, no thanks. Family and friends don’t really fall in the category of customers or clients in this case though.

I’m usually willing to put trees on the ground safely and leave the mess for them to clean up. Good way for able bodied folks to save a few bucks without taking on the hazards.

 

[Reach]

NO! It’s far too much of a liability risk for us. We do our best to keep everyone, customer included, far away when we are working. Lawn chair on the other side of the street? Sure, that’s great. Enjoy the show and stay away from the chipper and far away from the drop zone.

 

[Frankie 1]

Yeppers

 

[evo]

Hardly ever. IF the job can allow for them to drag brush from point a to point b, MAYBE. That is only as long point A doesn’t have any active work, and point b doesn’t have any active work. If they pull out a saw HELL NO!

 

[B_Strange]

I’ve had folks ask and always say no as kindly as possible. Too much liability.

 

[flushcut]

Ain't no way in hell!

 

[Chaplain242]

I work a lot of solo jobs, and finding help can be very hard to find in a hurry, and then often needed for only a few tasks. I have trained HO in groundy work and for the most part has been very successful - they have danger zones they aren’t allowed into, they have a 30-40 minute class in some cases before engaging (and quoted for), and generally are thrilled to take part. I assess them at the quote and if I have any reservations about attitude or capability, I get outside help.

I don’t do ‘risky’ work this way either - I will hold out for capable assistance.

Some say crazy to do it, but some ways they are better helpers than some groundy’s, because they do everything the way you told them to do it.

the only major issues come up is once pulling over a spar, and I went right to the limit of the back cut and it didn’t move - I indicted to pull and they indicated they couldn’t pull any harder - I left the saw in the cut and walked around the danger zone and pulled over the spar with one hand.

Before anyone carries on about it - I once had three groundys on a pull rope on a municipal job with very expensive target and the same thing happened. Both cases persons on the rope freaked out...

 

[MA Arborist]

Never!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Not for critical work. For low risk, maybe. Like raking or brush drsgging

Ask your worker’s compensation carrier to define coverage of helpers as employees. What happens if your client gets hurt helping you?

 

[Fivepoints]

If they want to tackle part or all of the cleanup after we are gone, sure. Otherwise, no. I've had home owners pick up stuff and feed our chipper while we were grabbing another piece with the loader. Of course no ppe. No thought to pieces of wood flying back could hit you in the eyes. People just don't see the dangers sometimes. Not to mention the liability. I had one last week that wanted to throw a squirrel in our chipper. It was dead from falling inside a piece cut. I didn't know he was in there.

 

[tomstrees]

I looked at a customer's property yesterday, he has probably 8 or so acres @ $1million an acre. Guy wants to participate in various improvement jobs. I don't see any problem if he doesn't increase danger or safety issues. I work at Home Depot where insurance companies dictate strong terms to the company on workers. Risk management is serious. It's hard to know where contractor coverage and home owner's insurance would offer coverage on injuries.

On log splitting, if customers want to feed wood to me, no big deal. My instincts are all in gear anyway, so risk is minimal unless people are on drugs, or alcohol. The last guy in Ossining pushed me hard as I had given him a $50/hr price on splitting. No breaks, just a total slave driver. I did not see that one coming as he said that yom kippur was a no go, and I asked him if the next day was ok. After we were done, he said "what are the damages?" I said $50/hr plus out of area compensation, as it was an extra 1 1/2 hours extra travelling. Did not pay me for travelling time. Got the job done, will never work for him again.

 

[Chaplain242]

Not for critical work. For low risk, maybe. Like raking or brush drsgging

Ask your worker’s compensation carrier to define coverage of helpers as employees. What happens if your client gets hurt helping you?

Depends on many factors, but I have seen many injuries from dragging brush amongst trained personnel, so not sure dragging qualifies as low risk especially considering ground conditions vary the risk.

 

[evo]

Depends on many factors, but I have seen many injuries from dragging brush amongst trained personnel, so not sure dragging qualifies as low risk especially considering ground conditions vary the risk.

Two of my five significant work injuries have been from dragging brush.
Broke my ring finger and broke a tooth

 

[Chaplain242]

Two of my five significant work injuries have been from dragging brush.
Broke my ring finger and broke a tooth

was the tooth chipper feed related?

 

[evo]

was the tooth chipper feed related?

Kinda, walking a winch line out. Holding the line about two feet from the hook and locked up, flipped the hook.

 

[cerviarborist]

I looked at a customer's property yesterday, he has probably 8 or so acres @ $1million an acre. Guy wants to participate in various improvement jobs. I don't see any problem if he doesn't increase danger or safety issues. I work at Home Depot where insurance companies dictate strong terms to the company on workers. Risk management is serious. It's hard to know where contractor coverage and home owner's insurance would offer coverage on injuries.

On log splitting, if customers want to feed wood to me, no big deal. My instincts are all in gear anyway, so risk is minimal unless people are on drugs, or alcohol. The last guy in Ossining pushed me hard as I had given him a $50/hr price on splitting. No breaks, just a total slave driver. I did not see that one coming as he said that yom kippur was a no go, and I asked him if the next day was ok. After we were done, he said "what are the damages?" I said $50/hr plus out of area compensation, as it was an extra 1 1/2 hours extra travelling. Did not pay me for travelling time. Got the job done, will never work for him again.

I'd have to suggest that you question your instincts a bit more deeply, if you got burned that bad by a client "helping out" on a job and are still here asking if it's ok to do. Hire proper help or do it solo. And work with a written contract for crying out loud.

 

[Chaplain242]

I looked at a customer's property yesterday, he has probably 8 or so acres @ $1million an acre. Guy wants to participate in various improvement jobs. I don't see any problem if he doesn't increase danger or safety issues. I work at Home Depot where insurance companies dictate strong terms to the company on workers. Risk management is serious. It's hard to know where contractor coverage and home owner's insurance would offer coverage on injuries.

On log splitting, if customers want to feed wood to me, no big deal. My instincts are all in gear anyway, so risk is minimal unless people are on drugs, or alcohol. The last guy in Ossining pushed me hard as I had given him a $50/hr price on splitting. No breaks, just a total slave driver. I did not see that one coming as he said that yom kippur was a no go, and I asked him if the next day was ok. After we were done, he said "what are the damages?" I said $50/hr plus out of area compensation, as it was an extra 1 1/2 hours extra travelling. Did not pay me for travelling time. Got the job done, will never work for him again.

have seen this type of behaviour from people that are supposed to be friends, or friends of friends - and you find out what they are really like. I think the issues run deep and distancing ties the only option. I have even had one try to get me back using different names - foolhardy effort since they can’t change the address of the job.

 

[tomstrees]

I'd have to suggest that you question your instincts a bit more deeply, if you got burned that bad by a client "helping out" on a job and are still here asking if it's ok to do. Hire proper help or do it solo. And work with a written contract for crying out loud.

I'd agree, it depends how busy you are. A local property owner contacted me on a bunch of fallen trees on his property. He's been playing the field and was complaining he couldn't get laborers or landscapers to do the job (at his price). It looked like a couple half days, and I said $50-$75 an hour which is fair with large saws and full out work. So he complains that I said $50 an hour which I didn't, you have to base an hourly wage based on the work and equipment. So he balked and said the climber he had was $75 an hour. He said some local guys with saws start at $16 an hour which is crazy. He is either going to find a beaten down worker willing to work by his terms, an illegal, or he will have other problems. He was complaining that he couldn't find workers willing to do the work on his terms.

 

[OasisTree]

Keep your prices high, and keep in mind that once you are on the job your insurance company owns the property. You have the say on what happens when onsite. Also, BTW, bid the jobs instead of working hourly and set your minimums. It leaves less for them to pick apart.