UK. Two ropes at all times(USA next?)

  • Thread starter Thread starter TC
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treebing said: "Things that arborist take as golden rule. They kind of scoffed at all the triple lock biners. It was a different kind of safety culture."
That's a neat comment to me - I think each rope discipline (and even sports such as sailing) have their own paradigms which we're all stuck in somewhat - I remember thinking how different some stuff was when I went out with friends that were into caving. Very different world than ice or alpine or trees (my world). Makes me think it would be worth a flip thru an old copy of "On Rope" again and maybe some of the old rope rescue books that're lying around. The whole subject is fascinating, each discipline though, absolutely convinced their way is "The Way" . . .
Stay safe out there . . .
 
ghostice said:
... each discipline though, absolutely convinced their way is "The Way" . . .
Click to expand...

And they are not wrong. Each of the disciplines you mentioned have spent years perfecting what works, "for them". They know exactly what they need to do and why.

It is telling how different each separate rope discipline can be. This should be recognized and accepted.
 
The regulation is meant to protect the public and the workforce. it doesn't provide a solution for every situation but does give you a place to propose and endorse your solution.
You or your employer must do a proper risk assessment end of story.
If that risk assessment does not provide a solution for the "just in case" you are fucked/negligent or dead or injuried.
Your option in a tree
a. work restraint, b. work positioning and c.fall arrest,
if you or your employer can't find a way to combine a second system in case your primary fails than
It is obvious our industry is failing that. people are falling
Unregulated, non mandatory etc equals murder.
 
Any of you guys ever heard of a climber not being allowed to use two climbing systems? Using two systems when appropriate is already an option, and a good one.

Being tied in twice while working is already in the standards, so a fall from cutting a single line is a violation of current standards.

Climbing safely is all about good judgement and is a responsibility. Without that, neither the climber or anyone or anything below will be safe.
 
RopeShield said:
The regulation is meant to protect the public and the workforce. it doesn't provide a solution for every situation but does give you a place to propose and endorse your solution.
You or your employer must do a proper risk assessment end of story.
If that risk assessment does not provide a solution for the "just in case" you are fucked/negligent or dead or injuried.
Your option in a tree
a. work restraint, b. work positioning and c.fall arrest,
if you or your employer can't find a way to combine a second system in case your primary fails than
It is obvious our industry is failing that. people are falling
Unregulated, non mandatory etc equals murder.
Click to expand...

The only time it could be murder is when the boss or supervisor fells the tree to bring the climber to the ground in a hurry. I find the ‘murder’ rhetoric a bit much...
 
TC said:
Arb training companies in the UK now required to have all trainee climbers on two ropes at all times.

This vid (from a small training company in England somewhere?) looks at possible (very basic) solutions.

Take a look at the bizarre twin ZigZag setup at 10.00 held together with a velcro strap. In day to day work situations this would be almost unworkable, certainly impractical for moving through, across and up and down a large Oak etc, a huge amount of physical effort required, not to mention the rope tending/managment, bridge management, anchor choices, trailing ends becoming entangled and so on.

BE WARNED, this is one of the most uninspiring and depressing tree vids you'll ever see. It represents a new low point in the history of tree care where a state/gov dictated how we approach our job. DO NOT WATCH if you value the innate and inherent creativity of the tree care industry. This video shows regressive methods carried out in a resentful, reluctant, lacklustre, dull and mean spirited atmosphere.



.
Click to expand...
You're punkin me, right? This is really just a Monty python skit.
 
treebing said:
I highly doubt that anyone that had anything to do with these regulations knows anything about me or the way I climb. Nor any other climber. But I guess that's a compliment?
Click to expand...
If he’s right and the people writing regulations that affect our everyday work practices aren’t farmiliar with treebeing and others great climbers of the past 10 years then we really are in trouble!
 
I'm sorry if this is duplicated elsewhere in this thread somewhere - not sure if everyone may be aware of "two rope petition" making the rounds in the UK - brief note on next step/ status in the UK and pertition to sign if you so wish (I believe anyone can add their name, not just UK climbers):
www.change.org

Sign the Petition

Single rope climbing for UK arborists
www.change.org www.change.org
Cheers
 
Man I’m torn on the subject. I’ve used two lines in many applications in trees and it’s been very useful. I do however see how redundant it can be also. The tree gear sites are gonna looove selling double of everything used for life support too haha!
 
There's other options for a "safety line" than completely duplicated RW, RR, etc. - like ISC's Rocker, couple of shorter biners and a shorty quickdraw sling and you can have a rope clamp setup as a safety line - if you don't need a second climb system. This is of course predicated on the ability to get a second line coming down the tree to you in any kind of as direct a line as your climb line. If not, there's likely to be a lot of time and energy spent fiddling on the way up . . . .
What's a simple concept for open canopies maybe isn't that simple for conifers or other dense trees.
 
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