Moss Cinching Lanyard prototype

[Burrapeg]

. . . The tail end is clean with a secure utility loop sewn in so that a sleeve cambium saver can be easily added in for MRS. . . .

Hey AJ, remember Richard's velcro'd split leather cambium saver sleeve, which is midline attachable. That work fine on a line with eyes on both ends. I bought a couple last year and love them. They are half the size of the big cumbersome Weaver ones and Richard has added a feature where two of them can be attached end to end to extend the length for bigger limbs.

 

[rope-a-dope]

my inexperience may be showing here but what sets this apart from using a thimble prussic on your lanyard or climb line for SRT

Choking or cinching anchors are the goal. Even a prussik adjusted tightly around a stem doesn't produce the same security as a positive squeeze under load.

 

[evo]

Put a bungee in a tube somewhere in it will ya?

 

[moss]

This is some cool stuff, AJ. After having used this for a while, how would you say it compares to a small thimble prusic for ease of setting and versatility?

I used a thimble prusik on my lanyard for a while a number or years back. This is easier in that the thimble prusik can get in the way if you leave it on the end of the lanyard and it's an additional step to deploy and use if you stow the thimble prusik the way Worthaug does on the carabiner that also holds the adjuster hitch on for example the CE Lanyard. As I've mentioned if you rarely or infrequently deploy your lanyard in SRS mode and the thimble prusik doesn't get in your way then you’re good to go. For my climbing style the thimble prusik takes too much time moving it around. I can't simply keep it on the end of the lanyard because it often interferes with flipping the lanyard end over/under/around things.

It is more versatile generally than a thimble prusik. There are probably more variations with it in addition to what I found climbing roughly 24 hours total in multiple work climbs. In the right situations re: enough limb/trunk diameter etc I'm still using a carabiner cinch. As shown now by Petzl in the Chicane/Zig Zag SRS literature. It has a learning curve since it is a totally new paradigm but I'm finding it's getting super smooth on install. Like anything in tree climbing some of you will love it, some will never like it or see why they'd want to use it.
-AJ

 

[moss]

Put a bungee in a tube somewhere in it will ya?

Damn! I can't afford to go to court over this. Plus I can't find any tubes or bungees in my shop.
-AJ

 

[moss]

Hey AJ, remember Richard's velcro'd split leather cambium saver sleeve, which is midline attachable. That work fine on a line with eyes on both ends. I bought a couple last year and love them. They are half the size of the big cumbersome Weaver ones and Richard has added a feature where two of them can be attached end to end to extend the length for bigger limbs.

That is cool. I never could get to like leather cambium savers, it seems dumb but I don't like the squeak they make every time you pull a couple feet of rope through one when the rope is loaded up on ascent. I'm a religious adherent to the 3/4" ID ultra-flex liquid-tite metal coil lined conduit saver. I make them much shorter than the ones you used to see available commercially. They are the highest level in the "very not bad" category. Normally I'm not putting tight eyes on my climbing ropes anymore but I do put Dyneema webbing utility loops (buried and sewn) on both ends of my lines. For the few times I climb MRS I simply tie a double-overhand noose termination, it's fine.
-AJ

 

[moss]

my inexperience may be showing here but what sets this apart from using a thimble prussic on your lanyard or climb line for SRT

See my answer to DSMc. If you watch the most recent vid posted you'll already see versatility beyond the thimble prusik. The main difference is there are no moving parts around, all hardware on the lanyard stays the same no matter what mode the lanyard is used in.

As I demo'd a little in the vid an dwhat I've experienced in use, the ring does not want to hang up when you're taking the lanyard end out.

@Worthaug, you got a bucket of cold water you want to pour on this? Must be something you can do here!
-AJ

 

[moss]

Is this something you’re gonna market?
Looking forward to more pics and vid

Yeah, I want to do a small production run on them and make it available. I would do it direct to the climbers through my web site, more bits and pieces of the pie to keep my bills paid. Thx Jonny.

Note: Marten Penrose of "Dark Arts Splicing" in Vancouver has already built one using his shop's rope sewing gear, will be interesting to see what he or whomever tries it out thinks. Probably won't like it on the first run through ;-) I asked him to break it immedately, he has access to some nice pull testing equipment. That would be my next step if/when I can get a few sewn up by machine. No way I'm breaking my hand-sewn stuff at this point, I've broken enough of them, I'm not worried but I/we do need the data as part of the process moving this forward.

If all I end up with is a couple of nice SRS lanyard options for my own climbing I'll be very happy but I think there's climbers out there who will like it too.
-AJ

 

[moss]

And lastly foor now, on the subject of splicing. I took a hard look at using a traditional 24-strand splice for this lanyard and came up with no go. It's not a matter of "can the throat of the bury handle the flexing?". The tight throat area of the bury above an eye is approx. 4.5" long, the stiff area of the sewn join on my lanyard is 1.75" long. The 4.5" long semi-rigid bury/throat area defeats a cinch on narrow diameter wood whereas a 1.75" rigid area works very well on narrower diameter wood.
-AJ

 

[Barc Buster]

Yeah, I want to do a small production run on them and make it available. I would do it direct to the climbers through my web site, more bits and pieces of the pie to keep my bills paid. Thx Jonny.

Note: Marten Penrose of "Dark Arts Splicing" in Vancouver has already built one using his shop's rope sewing gear, will be interesting to see what he or whomever tries it out thinks. Probably won't like it on the first run through ;-) I asked him to break it immedately, he has access to some nice pull testing equipment. That would be my next step if/when I can get a few sewn up by machine. No way I'm breaking my hand-sewn stuff at this point, I've broken enough of them, I'm not worried but I/we do need the data as part of the process moving this forward.

If all I end up with is a couple of nice SRS lanyard options for my own climbing I'll be very happy but I think there's climbers out there who will like it too.
-AJ

AJ,

I'm really digging this thing! I cinch a lot with a crab/quickie and can definitely see the value in your lanyard setup beyond that. Nice work man and I'd love one if you do make a production run!

Brad

 

[Burrapeg]

Put a bungee in a tube somewhere in it will ya?

Weaver is probably watching him already.

 

[moss]

AJ,

I'm really digging this thing! I cinch a lot with a crab/quickie and can definitely see the value in your lanyard setup beyond that. Nice work man and I'd love one if you do make a production run!

Brad

What do you like for a lanyard length 15’ or 20’ or other? @DSMc mentioned 20’. I can make either but looking to see if there’s a strong preference towards one or the other. Thinking 60’ and/or 80’ for the long version.
-AJ

 

[Barc Buster]

What do you like for a lanyard length 15’ or 20’ or other? @DSMc mentioned 20’. I can make either but looking to see if there’s a strong preference towards one or the other. Thinking 60’ and/or 80’ for the long version.
-AJ

20 would be ideal.

 

[Mowerr]

I'm now bui;ding wht I'm calling the "Moss Woods Lanyard", it's an 80' long lanyard intended as a lightweight rec/research woods climbing "lanyard". The idea is it's a lot nicer to carry 80' as your main rope into the woods as opposed to a 150' or 200'. The lanyard could have applications in work climbing as well.

It works as a remotely settable/retrievable choked canopy anchor that can be quickly switched back and forth from SRS to MRS as needed. Instead of a captured ring sewn in just behind the end carabiner there is a double locker slic pin stainless bow shackle. The shackle allows more flexibility in configurations. The tail end is clean with a secure utility loop sewn in so that a sleeve cambium saver can be easily added in for MRS. I'll post photos and vid when ready.
-AJ

So I'm just playing devil's advocate not trying to get beat up but you say a thimble prussic is too much to have at the end of the lanyard near the biners but you do better with a quickie next to the biner instead?
I'm guess you take it off when using in tradition d to d Mrs mode?
I just feel like the thimble hasn't bothered me ever but haven't tried a quickie out there with the biner myself.
That's all irrelevant to me because where your concept lanyard shines is choking and cinching enough said. I'd much rather have that real good choke like yours and worthaug does. (I actually like Reed's way better but haven't tried ajs.) Me and AJ are both from the northeast so I'm always gonna support ya and check out what ways your doings things bc we climb similar trees in similar climate.
I got no problem installing my thimble prussic when I need it. And I can pull it off in like 1-2 secs.
I love the quickie on a super tight eye to help orientation. Wish the quickie opened easier with 1 hand but I can do it pretty quick in the summer when I wear gloves a lot less.
Keep it up moss your doing good

 

[moss]

So I'm just playing devil's advocate not trying to get beat up but you say a thimble prussic is too much to have at the end of the lanyard near the biners but you do better with a quickie next to the biner instead?
I'm guess you take it off when using in tradition d to d Mrs mode?
I just feel like the thimble hasn't bothered me ever but haven't tried a quickie out there with the biner myself.
That's all irrelevant to me because where your concept lanyard shines is choking and cinching enough said. I'd much rather have that real good choke like yours and worthaug does. (I actually like Reed's way better but haven't tried ajs.) Me and AJ are both from the northeast so I'm always gonna support ya and check out what ways your doings things bc we climb similar trees in similar climate.
I got no problem installing my thimble prussic when I need it. And I can pull it off in like 1-2 secs.
I love the quickie on a super tight eye to help orientation. Wish the quickie opened easier with 1 hand but I can do it pretty quick in the summer when I wear gloves a lot less.
Keep it up moss your doing good

All good. I used the thimble prusik for awhile and it kept getting in the way when flipping my lanyard. I like Worthaug’s thimble prusik stow technique but is another series of motions to stow or unstow to implement. My climbing style has so evolved to use cinching frequently that I wanted a reliable simple way to do it without doing any extra movements to configure my lanyard for the cinch. That’s all. A subtle difference but a big difference for my climbing. I’m still cinching an alloy carabiner on spars and wide enough diameter stuff so I have everything I want in one lanyard configuration.
-AJ

 

[Jehinten]

Yeah, I want to do a small production run on them and make it available. I would do it direct to the climbers through my web site, more bits and pieces of the pie to keep my bills paid. Thx Jonny.

Note: Marten Penrose of "Dark Arts Splicing" in Vancouver has already built one using his shop's rope sewing gear

Have you spoken with Marten or anyone else who does commercial sewn eyes about the cost of manufacturing? Will the one end be the cost of two sewn eyes and the ring? Not your cost to customers, just your cost to have them made. Feel free not to throw a number out, as that's your business and profit margins.

I'm curious if you could skip the sewing between the ring and carabiner and instead use one of the restrictor rubber bands? This would cut down on your time hand sewing and potentially cut down on your manufacturing cost once commercially built.

Individual bands are under $.50 each.

Rubber Banding Kit

This banding tool, called an Elastrator, can be used to apply strong rubber bands to your girth eye splices to reduce and control the eye size. The bands can also be used with carabiners, loo

www.treestuff.com

 

[moss]

Have you spoken with Marten or anyone else who does commercial sewn eyes about the cost of manufacturing? Will the one end be the cost of two sewn eyes and the ring? Not your cost to customers, just your cost to have them made. Feel free not to throw a number out, as that's your business and profit margins.

I'm curious if you could skip the sewing between the ring and carabiner and instead use one of the restrictor rubber bands? This would cut down on your time hand sewing and potentially cut down on your manufacturing cost once commercially built.

Individual bands are under $.50 each.

Rubber Banding Kit

This banding tool, called an Elastrator, can be used to apply strong rubber bands to your girth eye splices to reduce and control the eye size. The bands can also be used with carabiners, loo

www.treestuff.com

I'm talking to Marten, good progress made. The constrictor is cool but I want it sewn for optimal durability, will be done by machine so no worries. Thx for the suggestion!
-AJ

 

[moss]

Here's some video taking down a weird arched over black oak, the cinching lanyard is used in all major modes. Long vid as usual but it might give more insight for those curious about how the lanyard functions in real working use.

-AJ

 

[Bart_]

Curious, what's your thoughts on spurless for the removal?

 

[moss]

Curious, what's your thoughts on spurless for the removal?

For this heavy duty leaner spurs would've got in the way for most of it, just the last couple of cuts they would've helped but not worth the trouble to put them on for that.
-AJ