Rope Runner

[treebing]

Ive got two 150ft 8mm double braids lines (essentially teufelberger Sirius, different name). It worked well with the runner, I just never gave it enough time to really see the benefits. Two foot ascenders doesn't work that well because it tends to want to saw the ropes back and forth. They feed fine doubled up in a regular ropewalking system.

You will find you have to hold the stretch out with your hands. It doesnt take much and it is a little bit weird and not a natural motion. It probably makes it not the most efficient set up. But once you get the hang of it you can cruise. I would say for me, frogwalking is the fastest, then the double rope foot ascender, then a HAAS knee ascender method. Going in reverse in terms of efficiency.

 

[Tuebor]

I wonder why no one else seems to have tried this.

Several people here have tried it. Look for the TRT thread.

What do you mean saw? If they're anchored right they would be independent of each other.

When you put your weight into one line, it gets pulled down while the other goes up, and vice versa. That's why Johnny would tie a weight to the bottom and use grippy gloves to climb.

 

[lonniels]

Grippy gloves are definitely key. In my experience it is a fun rec climbing setup, but has little production value.

 

[Z'sTrees]

What do you mean saw? If they're anchored right they would be independent of each other.

The main benefit of trt, in my opinion, is having a similar tie in to ddrt, in that you can always move it/take it with you. If you just base tied the two independently, you wouldn't be able reap any benefits over srt.

Yes grippy gloves kind of help bit it still saws back and forth. A frog walker type of Ascent may be the ticket. It's been probably two years since I've messed with twin ropes so I'm a little foggy on all the details

 

[Tuebor]

What I was seeing as the main benefit is wearing two compact and efficient foot ascenders and ditching the goofy knee/bungee/chest craptastic setup.

Sure...but then you have the hassle of getting two special ropes - maybe usable only for TRT, finding the right tree to use the method, anchoring them in different locations, buying a left foot ascender, and possibly modifying your Runner.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

One argument often made at SRT is the investment of gear, RR's or whatever, doubling it it all doesn't help.
I used a modified frog walker for years using a Unicender, very efficient but mostly NOT hands free. Using two lines to walk up a rope also not very efficient because like I said about the stretch, you have to squeeze them together to keep them from moving back and forth as you shift your weight from one rope to the other. This also absolutely makes it not hands-free.
If you would like to try really cost effective and efficient SRT, set your line and passive multscender adjacent to the trunk, walk up using your SAKA and foot ascender combination and your hands to hold you up next to the trunk. The sounds harsh but in my opinion, the only advantage to using twin lines and double ascenders is to sell more gear.

 

[treebing]

The advantage to working with two lines is not at ascent, which is such a minimal and over emphasized part of tree work. It does work but is not as efficient as a hands free style rope walker. But not bad. Using two lines makes accessing far corners of the tree easier, for efficient route planning saving long up and downs, and superior work positioning. As for the jonny pro trt, I have no experience.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

The advantage to working with two lines is not at ascent, which is such a minimal and over emphasized part of tree work. It does work but is not as efficient as a hands free style rope walker. But not bad. Using two lines makes accessing far corners of the tree easier, for efficient route planning saving long up and downs, and superior work positioning. As for the jonny pro trt, I have no experience.

For sure, absolutely agree when it comes to multiple connections in the tree. Of course there are numerous ways to do that, my preference is using the tale of my climbing line, others use a separate line and some a very long line. I would hope that we all experiment with what we like best. So good points, appreciate it.

 

[papadirk]

There are basically two different twin rope setups; one using two multi-senders, each on its own rope, basically two climbing systems. The second would be with two ropes in a single multi-sender. The latter usually involve changing out the RopeRunner's lower tending pulley for one that is not grooved and using two 8mm ropes. Both of these are a bit of a challenge. You would need to have a pulley made for the RR and 8mm climbing rope is no common. If you are using twin ropes in a single multi-sender you have to consider how you plan to make your TIP. Certain methods lend themselves to creating a undesirable sawing action. I found a twin rope hand asender helps minimize this.
Both setups offer different advantages/disadvantages. And as @yoyoman points out each method give you a chances to experiment and learn new techniques.

 

[papadirk]

Johnnypro used the normal pulley with his twin rope setup.

Yes, you are right but with a modified pulley it is a lot smoother.

 

[DSMc]

The advantage to working with two lines is not at ascent, which is such a minimal and over emphasized part of tree work...

I actually think ascent, is not over-emphasized, but instead, misinterpreted and isolated to thinking of it as just tree access.

Vertical movement takes massive energy so unless you are doing a simple, up and back down procedure, like a simple removal, vertical movement will happen over and over again, throughout a work climb.

System efficiency needs to consider the entirety of the climb. Having a system that will change between ascent and descent quickly, while still utilizing leg strength, should be a large part of what we are looking for in a system.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

I actually think ascent, is not over-emphasized, but instead, misinterpreted and isolated to thinking of it as just tree access.

Vertical movement takes massive energy so unless you are doing a simple, up and back down procedure, like a simple removal, vertical movement will happen over and over again, throughout a work climb.

System efficiency needs to consider the entirety of the climb. Having a system that will change between ascent and descent quickly, while still utilizing leg strength, should be a large part of what we are looking for in a system.

It's funny I have a watch that keeps track of how many floors I climb during a day I think it uses a combination of barometric pressure change and movement but today I did a removal of a 90 foot sweetgum, came all the way back down to the ground once for lunch but most of the time was just moving around in the tree rigging pieces out as it was near the home and between electrical service. So I looked at my watch at the end of the day and it said I climbed 142 floors. I don't think that it's totally correct, but I agree I think we would all be surprised how many times we move up a little to adjust a sling etc etc.

 

[oldoakman]

That's what keeps us young richard.

 

[rico]

I just bought a Runner and it is love at first sight. The problem its that my beloved 11mm HTP just bit the dust so I am in desperate need of some new climbing line. Looking for something that specifically kickass as in the Runner, and low bounce/elongation/stretch is mandatory. I'm cool with 11mm but my hands like the idea of something a little larger. Thought, experiences, and recommendations would be much appreciated.

 

[RBJtree]

I just bought a Runner and it is love at first sight. The problem its that my beloved 11mm HTP just bit the dust so I am in desperate need of some new climbing line. Looking for something that specifically kickass as in the Runner, and low bounce/elongation/stretch is mandatory. I'm cool with 11mm but my hands like the idea of something a little larger. Thought, experiences, and recommendations would be much appreciated.

@swingdude recommends yale 11.7 to fill all your rr needs. Lol, I don't have a rr, I was just reading this thread and recalled swingdude talking about how great a combo it is.

 

[chiselbit]

Rico if you haven’t already, get the bird cover thing ( 4srt) from wesspur. My runner really likes the Scion rope. But it’s bouncy. They’re ALL bouncy in tall trees. I just consider it the cost of doing business in the tall timber.

 

[islandarb]

A rr and Yale 11.7 is heaven. I have 2 of the first ever made and it is a perfect match. @rico been busy away from climbing but will take a short rec climb this afternoon and let you know how the vega is working with a seasoned runner. Vega has a tighter cover so I think it will be even better than Yale 11.7. It is a tad lighter I believe. Would check that. Will message you after I do. Won't take an hour.

 

[islandarb]

Rico if you haven’t already, get the bird cover thing ( 4srt) from wesspur. My runner really likes the Scion rope. But it’s bouncy. They’re ALL bouncy in tall trees. I just consider it the cost of doing business in the tall timber.

Yale 11.7 is no where near bouncy. Tall or short. Vega even less. Poly kern is being made by wesspur. Will be the lightest most static rope for arbs. Should be out shortly. Can call and ask Dave if any of you like. I had some of the ugly edition but was so thin and the cover was not what I like. Will give the new one a try though. White sucks. My hand does not like 11 since losing my oinky tip.

 

[rico]

@swingdude recommends yale 11.7 to fill all your rr needs. Lol, I don't have a rr, I was just reading this thread and recalled swingdude talking about how great a combo it is.

Yea Swing and his fucking Yale 11.7. According to him that shit could solve the global warming crisis and create world peace? Wonder how it works on male pattern baldness?

 

[rico]

Rico if you haven’t already, get the bird cover thing ( 4srt) from wesspur. My runner really likes the Scion rope. But it’s bouncy. They’re ALL bouncy in tall trees. I just consider it the cost of doing business in the tall timber.

I got the 4srt beak cover. Expensive little sucker for what it is but the reports were good so I grabbed one. Glad I did.