Which to choose? Mini Skid Steer

[Wes84]

For anybody still following this post after 437 previous posts lol. After researching all the brands, and three day spent at the GIA expo in Louisville, KY. demoing all of the machines in there 40 acre demo area. On Friday, 26 October 2018 I received a quote for a brand new bobcat MT85 in Louisville Kentucky for $26,196 Including the 7% sales tax. It’s reverse and forward speed is faster than the ditch witch SK800. And the operators platform was more comfortable than any of the five others I tested. It has the universal plate that will mount up with all of my BMG attachments. It is almost exactly the same specs as the ditch witch, and Vermeer. Toro does not make a comparable model. The total quote from by ditch witch dealer was $29,207 including sales tax. This was a no brainer. I hope this helps.

If you were told that about the machines, you were mislead. The MT 85 travels at 4.1 mph forward and 2.9 mph in reverse per the Bobcat website. Ditch Witch SK800 is 4.8 mph in forward and reverse. Trust me, having that speed in reverse is huge.

Also, both units tout 24.8 hp. What is not readily available here are the engine displacement and torque values. The Bobcat runs a kubota D902 (super mini) at 55 cubic in. displacement. The Ditch Witch SK 800 runs the D1105 at 68.5 cubic in. displacement.

Go to Kubota's website and compare the torque curve on the two engines. It's a no brainer after that. The SK800 is about $25k here in Alabama and the MT85 is about $28k. Put another $4k with that and you can get a Ditch Witch 1050. There's absolutely no comparison between the two. I've test driven the the MT 85 a couple of times and I own an SK 850 (basically the same machine as the new 1050).

The MT 85 is a nice machine but you're getting more machine for a little less money with the Ditch Witch SK800. Not to mention parts are relatively cheap and they are VERY durable.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[colb]

Was that quote from Ditch Witch Mid States? I'm going to call tomorrow for pricing. I've been looking for used machines around 20k and spending cash, but now I'm thinking about spending some more and buying new (taking on a payment for 2 years).

Anyone wish they bought the sk850 vs the sk800 because of a lack of power?

I have a MT55 right now and it's been a good machine, but kinda have my heart set on buying a DW. Haven't really given the MT85 any serious consideration.

With my 32 hp kubota diesel dw sk650 I rarely run into power shortages. When I do, I'm using a hill as ballast to carry a ridiculously oversized log (~2k lbs.) sideways. Stump grinding is the other limiter, but that is driven by hydraulic gpm and psi - the sk850, for instance, has just a tiny bit more. I do not think that our industry relies on power so much as tip weight and ground pressure.

 

[Steve Pikes Tree Care]

Hey Wes, I went back and checked my specs, you are absolutely right. The deal hasn’t gone through yet, the bobcat was kind of an afterthought, I was ordering a couple of articulating loader’s. Having said that, the bobcat dealer is about a half hour closer to me. They have a dedicated salesman that lives close to me and their price was $3000 less in total than the ditch witch. I’m still leaning towards that just because in this particular case there is a cost savings for some reason. The ditch witch dealer in Shepherdsville Kentucky is just represented by some mid western sales guy that has like five stores, and It’s about an hour and a half away from me. This machine will be assigned to my big crane crew which means it will rarely if ever leave blacktop, since the crane sets the material down in the road. With those considerations in mind, I’m not sure that the 2.9 mph reverse speed versus 4.5 mph is that important. Honestly, when I test drove it, I was specifically checking that out because all the comments I read had complained about the reverse speed. It felt fast enough to me, particularly since I will be handing this to guys that will be using it on the streets with parked cars and in tight quarters. The slower reverse speed actually felt like a plus in my book from a safety perspective. The powers thing definitely has me intrigued though. What is the practical difference, in your opinion, from the torque curve difference between the two machines? If you guys are telling me that I might just be getting a ditch witch sales guy that is not working very hard for me, I’m sure I can get at least a matching price, I would think.

 

[Wes84]

Hey Wes, I went back and checked my specs, you are absolutely right. The deal hasn’t gone through yet, the bobcat was kind of an afterthought, I was ordering a couple of articulating loader’s. Having said that, the bobcat dealer is about a half hour closer to me. They have a dedicated salesman that lives close to me and their price was $3000 less in total than the ditch witch. I’m still leaning towards that just because in this particular case there is a cost savings for some reason. The ditch witch dealer in Shepherdsville Kentucky is just represented by some mid western sales guy that has like five stores, and It’s about an hour and a half away from me. This machine will be assigned to my big crane crew which means it will rarely if ever leave blacktop, since the crane sets the material down in the road. With those considerations in mind, I’m not sure that the 2.9 mph reverse speed versus 4.5 mph is that important. Honestly, when I test drove it, I was specifically checking that out because all the comments I read had complained about the reverse speed. It felt fast enough to me, particularly since I will be handing this to guys that will be using it on the streets with parked cars and in tight quarters. The slower reverse speed actually felt like a plus in my book from a safety perspective. The powers thing definitely has me intrigued though. What is the practical difference, in your opinion, from the torque curve difference between the two machines? If you guys are telling me that I might just be getting a ditch witch sales guy that is not working very hard for me, I’m sure I can get at least a matching price, I would think.

I'm gonna start by respectfully disagreeing with colb's comment above, which has everything to do with your question.

Flow and pressure do matter but when your machine comes under load, it's going to come down to the engine's ability to maintain that flow and pressure.

Torque does not represent power or work. It represents the engine's ability to maintain that power output. Weight and leverage come into play here. The D902 and the D1105 put out the same horsepower at their rated RPM but the D1105 is a bigger engine. It has more mass. It probably has a longer stroke and better leverage on the crankshaft.

The Bobcat salesman in my area says the same. that horsepower doesn't matter anymore. Its all about flow. He's wrong. He's referencing the fact that with the Tier 4 requirements, there have been more and more machine platforms that are using smaller 25 hp engines to do the same work. The way that they are achieving this is by installing larger block, higher torque engines. Yes they are putting out only 25 hp. But they are doing so at say 2200 RPM instead of 3000. Many of them are detuned and could normally produce 35-40 hp. The Toro TX 1000 is a prime example.

I do agree with colb that lift capacity is a major factor. I would NOT let a couple thousand dollars and only 30 min. extra drive effect my decision on a mini skid. Maybe a larger more complex machine but not one of these. With a Ditch Witch, when it finally does start tearing up, it will probably have outlived the warranty anyways. They are so simple to work on, you would probably prefer to do your own maintenance and repairs, warranty or not. I'm no mechanic and I could easily rebuild my entire undercarriage and replace my tracks in 3-4 hrs. tops(SK 850).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Wes84]

Hey Wes, I went back and checked my specs, you are absolutely right. The deal hasn’t gone through yet, the bobcat was kind of an afterthought, I was ordering a couple of articulating loader’s. Having said that, the bobcat dealer is about a half hour closer to me. They have a dedicated salesman that lives close to me and their price was $3000 less in total than the ditch witch. I’m still leaning towards that just because in this particular case there is a cost savings for some reason. The ditch witch dealer in Shepherdsville Kentucky is just represented by some mid western sales guy that has like five stores, and It’s about an hour and a half away from me. This machine will be assigned to my big crane crew which means it will rarely if ever leave blacktop, since the crane sets the material down in the road. With those considerations in mind, I’m not sure that the 2.9 mph reverse speed versus 4.5 mph is that important. Honestly, when I test drove it, I was specifically checking that out because all the comments I read had complained about the reverse speed. It felt fast enough to me, particularly since I will be handing this to guys that will be using it on the streets with parked cars and in tight quarters. The slower reverse speed actually felt like a plus in my book from a safety perspective. The powers thing definitely has me intrigued though. What is the practical difference, in your opinion, from the torque curve difference between the two machines? If you guys are telling me that I might just be getting a ditch witch sales guy that is not working very hard for me, I’m sure I can get at least a matching price, I would think.

The practical difference is that you're going to be able to make fast cycles with larger loads without bogging down as much. It also won't be as likely to starve an attachment when you are lifting or tracking. Also if a guy can't safely operate a mini skid with a top speed of less than 5 MPH he doesn't need to be on any machinery at all. You have to learn to pay attention. Period. The slower reverse speed isn't going to fix that guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Greatoutdoors]

I called the Columbus branch earlier and they redirected me to my area sales rep. The 800 is around $25k and the 1050 around 32k I believe. He's probably gonna bring me a machine out on Friday. As of now, I'll probably snag an sk800 next week if everything goes good.

 

[Wes84]

I called the Columbus branch earlier and they redirected me to my area sales rep. The 800 is around $25k and the 1050 around 32k I believe. He's probably gonna bring me a machine out on Friday. As of now, I'll probably snag an sk800 next week if everything goes good.

I don't think you could go wrong. If you can easily afford the 1050 I'd highly recommend it. Not that the 800 wouldn't be plenty. It just seems to me that if you have a lot of work for it to do, the $6-7k price difference is negligible and you will ALWAYS have power to spare if you use it as it was intended. They are strong as hell.

I quote customers flat prices but my 850 averages $175-$200 per machine hour most of the time. Very high ROI if you start off new.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[southsoundtree]

An experienced, attentive operator could creep a machine, running at full blast.

If the operators don't know how to operate the engine at the right speed for the task, and throttle down in tight places and for precise work, they shouldn't be working in critical places, imo.

 

[TopNotchEquipment]

Curious why the switch from Giant??

Long story short.... we never switched from Cast to Giant as we had agreement with Cast prior to selling Giant. Cast has been over 2 years in engineering and design for USA lineup which we are the importer/distributor and dealer of, and when our Giant dealer agreement became up for renewal They demanded we only sell Giant and to keep their loaders we had to drop lines we had much longer than Giant (2 years), having been dealer for Gehl (10years), Avant (6 years) and Cast (2.5 years) ... we declined and no longer sell Giant but will continue to service and support the ones we have sold.
Moving forward we are very excited with the new models of Cast Loaders coming in 2019. We have had a lot of input with the engineering team building a machine that is best suited for the U.S. Markets, I asked for 14" turf tires, 10-function joystick with detent, larger displacement engine, universal mini plate, cab ready and more Cast did it and we continue to work with them on model improvements.
New models for 2019:
20T changes to 30-series chassis
New spec on 23T
28T
33T-lx (formerly 30T)
Carbon Edition 33T-lx
All New 57T (mid-2019)
800 series adds 2 more models in addition to 825D
800D - smaller engine entry level
830D - larger engine more std features

Contact me for more information
Harry 6124549191

 

[Landerson]

I currently have a Dingo tx525. I want something with more capacity and faster travel speed (especially in reverse). I've decided to go with Ditch Witch and narrowed it down to the sk800 and sk1050. I understand that the machines are the same size and will have the same lifting capacity if I add the weight kit to the 800.

The big difference in these machines seems to be 25hp vs 37hp. Also, the 1050 has better hydraulic pressure and flow rate. Can anyone tell me if that will make a big difference in our line of work? The sk800 is $6000 less (including weight kit).

I can demo both machines, but I'll be comparing with an 800 that doesn't have the weight kit (it would be added if I bought it).

Greatoutdoors: Did you go with the 800? I know you were also deciding between the two.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

I currently have a Dingo tx525. I want something with more capacity and faster travel speed (especially in reverse). I've decided to go with Ditch Witch and narrowed it down to the sk800 and sk1050. I understand that the machines are the same size and will have the same lifting capacity if I add the weight kit to the 800.

The big difference in these machines seems to be 25hp vs 37hp. Also, the 1050 has better hydraulic pressure and flow rate. Can anyone tell me if that will make a big difference in our line of work? The sk800 is $6000 less (including weight kit).

I can demo both machines, but I'll be comparing with an 800 that doesn't have the weight kit (it would be added if I bought it).

Greatoutdoors: Did you go with the 800? I know you were also deciding between the two.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

800 and 1050 are pretty much identical except the horse power. With the horse power increase comes emissions. Don't think DEF and all that. They manage it with a Particulate filter that must clean (about 75-100 hours depending on idle time). There is a computer on the 1050 that is nice for somethings but not so nice otherwise. The throttle on the 1050 is push button and has an auto throttle setting. the 800 is a manual throttle. We went with the 1050 and love it except one guy doesn't like the auto throttle and I do!

 

[Leo447]

800 and 1050 are pretty much identical except the horse power. With the horse power increase comes emissions. Don't think DEF and all that. They manage it with a Particulate filter that must clean (about 75-100 hours depending on idle time). There is a computer on the 1050 that is nice for somethings but not so nice otherwise. The throttle on the 1050 is push button and has an auto throttle setting. the 800 is a manual throttle. We went with the 1050 and love it except one guy doesn't like the auto throttle and I do!

Thank you! Do you think you’d be disappointed with 25hp? I’m trying to figure out if the lower horsepower and hydraulic flow will limit us.

 

[Wes84]

Thank you! Do you think you’d be disappointed with 25hp? I’m trying to figure out if the lower horsepower and hydraulic flow will limit us.

It all depends on what you're doing with it. Digging dirt and moving material or trees, no. Running attachments, maybe depending on the attachment and how hard you're trying to run it. Slowing your track speed so that you can milk the power out of your aux. flow makes a big difference. You won't have to worry about that much with the 1050, though.

If you're on the fence at that point, I think that the extra $7k for the 1050 is a negligible consideration when investing in a power unit that you'll use for a number of years before needing a new one. Better to have power to spare than not enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Thank you! Do you think you’d be disappointed with 25hp? I’m trying to figure out if the lower horsepower and hydraulic flow will limit us.

We used an older 800 before we purchased the1050 as our mini mini went down and the 800 is all the rental yard had. The older ones were under powered terribly even for trees... but DW has since corrected that lag somehow as we demoed a newer one and it was fine.

The more HP gives us options. For trees it’s nice but not necessarily needed but we now have the opportunity to put a brush mower on it if a client needs an area cleaned up. You may not regret but less HP tomorrow but I’m sure sometime in the life of the machine you will. We were looking at 800s and wound up with a 1050. There are days I wish I had gone with the 1550!

 

[Wes84]

We used an older 800 before we purchased the1050 as our mini mini went down and the 800 is all the rental yard had. The older ones were under powered terribly even for trees... but DW has since corrected that lag somehow as we demoed a newer one and it was fine.

The more HP gives us options. For trees it’s nice but not necessarily needed but we now have the opportunity to put a brush mower on it if a client needs an area cleaned up. You may not regret but less HP tomorrow but I’m sure sometime in the life of the machine you will. We were looking at 800s and wound up with a 1050. There are days I wish I had gone with the 1550!

You got that right. Put a 44 in. CID on the 850. You wouldn't believe how big of a tree it can take down. Cuts thick brush like going through grass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Barc Buster]

You got that right. Put a 44 in. CID on the 850. You wouldn't believe how big of a tree it can take down. Cuts thick brush like going through grass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

What's a CID? Like a disk mulcher?

 

[Wes84]

What's a CID? Like a disk mulcher?

No it's a company. Construction implements depot. They make a 44 in. rotary cutter for mini skid steers. Im not saying it's THE best, but it's the only name brand mini cutter on the market that utilizes a cutaway deck design. It allows you to take larger material without having to bend it under the deck. And it's perfectly safe as long as you operate it correctly. They also use a heavy sandwich blade carrier and the same 5/8 thick AR400 blades that they put on their full size skid steer cutters. It's a lot of mass.

I also had an industrial knife works shop cold hone a third edge on the blade tip and then flipped 1 blade upside down on the carrier. It allows the blade tip to cut like a saw kerf. That tree is a 6 inch diameter water oak.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Barc Buster]

That right there looks incredibly handy!

 

[TopNotchEquipment]

No it's a company. Construction implements depot. They make a 44 in. rotary cutter for mini skid steers. Im not saying it's THE best, but it's the only name brand mini cutter on the market that utilizes a cutaway deck design. It allows you to take larger material without having to bend it under the deck. And it's perfectly safe as long as you operate it correctly. They also use a heavy sandwich blade carrier and the same 5/8 thick AR400 blades that they put on their full size skid steer cutters. It's a lot of mass.

I also had an industrial knife works shop cold hone a third edge on the blade tip and then flipped 1 blade upside down on the carrier. It allows the blade tip to cut like a saw kerf. That tree is a 6 inch diameter water oak.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Can you send me manufacturer info, we should look at carrying those

 

[Wes84]

Can you send me manufacturer info, we should look at carrying those

Yes sir. They have a contact number on their website. Just Google "Construction Implements Depot". They are out of Denton, NC.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk