Cord vs Rope terminology

Jimmycrackcorn

Jimmycrackcorn

Participating member
Location
Boston
Hey y'all.. so search results aren't kicking up much but i have a pretty basic question here that I've always wondered..

When is a cord considered a cord & rope considered rope?

I see lines like Reep Schnur considered a cord, I've also seen 25+ mm lines considered cord as well.. you look up these lines descriptions & they tell you they are good with heat, wear, this & that, commonly used for prussiks or hitches but they are the same size as some sport climbing ropes.. Then you have fancy names like tech cord all the way down to just regular "accessory cord"..

If these smaller lines are holding similar weight ratings as the bigger "climbing ropes", what's the difference & why would one not be able to use the "cord" as a climbing line? I mean i get the whole static vs dynamic thing but if they both have similar weight ratings & elongation ratings & both fall into favorable specs then why is one cord & one climbing rope?

Maybe this is a bad one because of its construction, but for just one example.. i just saw HRC spec'd out at 30 something mm.. if it's tough enough to be burnt up as a hitch cord, tough enough for shock load & it's big enough to comfortably climb on, why would one not want it to climb on it..

Another example would be a common 24 braid prussik cord vs rope..

Hope y'all can follow that.. i have a feeling there's a million ways that could be answered. I think I'm getting lost in the weeds here..

& Just a heads up.. although it may fall within the parameters of an answer, I'm not asking about what size cord to use with whatever rope..

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39 views & no responses?? Does no one have a simple answer to this or did i make the question too convoluted..

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takjaa said:
Is cord not just a term for rope,
cordage - cords or ropes, especially in a ship's rigging.

Hitch rope just sounds cumbersome
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Idk.. would it still be cumbersome if it's all you've ever heard? You know what i mean? Sure it sounds funny now.. but you've only ever heard Hitch "Cord".. so I'm assuming there's a difference & the term "Cord" is used to differentiate something..

I know Cord, at one point, meant a rope with multiple other ropes inside. Ropes acting as parallel strands.. don't ask where i heard it, but i heard it recently & was the basis that got me thinking of why we differentiate the two in our industry.. why one isn't used as the other..etc..

I get why we don't use a typical "rope" as a hitch to slide down another piece of rope, because if not designed correctly it will glaze or burn out.. But I'm more so wondering why the "Cord" if made in the desired size, with desired SWL's & Elongation ratios, isn't used as climbing line itself.

Maybe expense is the main reason? I tend to notice prussik/hitch cord is more expensive than your typical rope variants.. but if it's that tough, you'd think it would be worth the investment... Worth it to some anyways..
TimBr said:
@Jimmycrackcorn; It is an interesting question, for sure, to which I don't know the answer. @Worthaug?

@NickfromWI?
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Ok cool... so I'm not soft in the head for wondering...lol

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Jimmycrackcorn said:
Idk.. would it still be cumbersome if it's all you've ever heard? You know what i mean? Sure it sounds funny now.. but you've only ever heard Hitch "Cord".. so I'm assuming there's a difference & the term "Cord" is used to differentiate something..

I know Cord, at one point, meant a rope with multiple other ropes inside. Ropes acting as parallel strands.. don't ask where i heard it, but i heard it recently & was the basis that got me thinking of why we differentiate the two in our industry.. why one isn't used as the other..etc..

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You do raise an interesting point, and you might be right about it. I once had a piece of Beeline hitch cord, I think it was, where if I was not careful, I could just pull the entire inner core of fibers right out, easily. So there seemed to be no mechanical connection between the inner core fibers and the outer sheath.

@Santiago Casanova?
 
"Rope" refers to the manufactured material. Once rope is purposely sized, cut, spliced, or simply assigned a function, the result is referred to as a "line", especially in nautical usage. Sail control lines are mainly referred to as sheets (e.g. jibsheet). A halyard, for example, is a line used to raise and lower a sail, and is typically made of a length of rope with a shackle attached at one end. Other examples include clothesline, chalk line, anchor line ("rode"), stern line, fishing line, marline and so on.

Cordage may refer to:
  • Rigging, cords and ropes attached to masts and sails on a ship or boat
  • Rope, yarns, plies or strands twisted or braided together into a larger form

It looks to me like rope is the general term; lines and cordage refer to cut rope used for a purpose. Hitch cord is rope cut for a purpose. A Line is the same thing in nautical terminology.

One exception would be 550 cord. On the spool it is rope, but it is still called 550 cord even before it is cut.
 
Ok.. i think I'm following..

I may need to read all that again to really understand.. but.. regardless, I think the terminology gets kinda loosly thrown around by ppl in general & manufactures now-a-days...where as way back when it had direct meanings.. probably way before all these high tech methods of manufacturing very high stength lines in small dinameters....

For example.. according to that rigging guide from 1925.. anything over 1in is rope.. if you applied that today most climbing lines would be cordage.. & the 26mm+ HRC i saw wouldn't be considered Cordage anymore, but rope..

Like i was saying, i dont think the old terms apply this day in age from a size standpoint but maybe more of a construction standpoint..

Which brings me back to, why would one not want to climb on a line designed for prussik or hitches if it was big & strong enough to be usable & efficient..?

Yes.. that UniCore is rather interesting.. im not sure why you dont see it more often in the ARB industry..I wonder how stiff it is & if it would make a good flipline alternative for someone who doesn't care about it's longevity, just it's strength & flip-ability.. (some of you may have read some of my other posts, but I'm on a quest to find the stiffest rope lanyard that will still function in a mechanical device. Idk, maybe im trying to reinvent the wheel here, but i know there has to be stiffer options available in a 12+mm non-steel core without having to use Manila or 3 stand type options.)

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You can use smaller diameter cords for a climb line, but usually mechanical devices won't work, and if you use a hitch, it will have to be proportionately smaller to work. It's harder to grip and the hitch being smaller, it's more difficult to pinch the top of it to descend.
I use 9mm and 10mm HTP for climb lines and sometimes a lanyard that is around 6.5mm. It's harder but I like the lighter weight, but using SRT puts more work on the legs then the hands.
 
Another consideration is materials. Some hitch cord core materials are not suited for climbing line use. They can be super static and self-abrading, a terrible combination when you need at least some dynamic capability for the worst case scenario. Even htp has a little give, and won’t melt through itself. That being said, I have wondered about some of the poly core varieties for climbing use.
 
TimBr said:
@Jimmycrackcorn; Interesting quest. I look forward to reading more about how it all turns out.
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It may be a useless exercise... But it all started after seeing how the wire core lanyard would slip through my ART Positioner if i didn't let the tail fully free hang out the rear of the device.

Brocky said:
You can use smaller diameter cords for a climb line, but usually mechanical devices won't work, and if you use a hitch, it will have to be proportionately smaller to work. It's harder to grip and the hitch being smaller, it's more difficult to pinch the top of it to descend.
I use 9mm and 10mm HTP for climb lines and sometimes a lanyard that is around 6.5mm. It's harder but I like the lighter weight, but using SRT puts more work on the legs then the hands.
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Wow.. those are some small lines.. i can only imagine how hard the hitches would bind up with my weight on them.. I'm over 200 & i can already see how 8mm locks way harder than 10mm, especially when using bound loop prussiks or thimble loops.. if i was to use 6.5mm as a lanyard I'm not even sure my sausage fingers would be able to grasp the hitch cord needed for that size.. never mind trying to see it with my aging eyeballs... Hahaha. To each his own though! If u have the ability to make it work, all the power to ya!



Crimsonking said:
Another consideration is materials. Some hitch cord core materials are not suited for climbing line use. They can be super static and self-abrading, a terrible combination when you need at least some dynamic capability for the worst case scenario. Even htp has a little give, and won’t melt through itself. That being said, I have wondered about some of the poly core varieties for climbing use.
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I think that may be a pretty good reason right there as to why one wouldn't use cord as climbing rope... self abrading & melting through itself it not good..lol

When you say "poly core" are you referencing Unicore type lines? Or something else..


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Kevlar and Technora are the ones that are self abrading. If they're used for the cover they are easily inspected for wear, harder to judge if used in the core.
If you're using loops for the friction hitch, going to double eyes would give you a larger selection, and better performing results.
 
Brocky said:
Kevlar and Technora are the ones that are self abrading. If they're used for the cover they are easily inspected for wear, harder to judge if used in the core.
If you're using loops for the friction hitch, going to double eyes would give you a larger selection, and better performing results.
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Brocky said:
Kevlar and Technora are the ones that are self abrading. If they're used for the cover they are easily inspected for wear, harder to judge if used in the core.
If you're using loops for the friction hitch, going to double eyes would give you a larger selection, and better performing results.
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Should TriTech not be used for a Bridge? Is it cindered self abraiding? Its Technora Sheath, Dyneema inner Jacket & Nylon core..

Hahaha.. yup.. you know exactly what im talking about.. im basically just using the bound loops / thimbles on my lanyard to create a "2in1".. wait.. no.. i dont think thats the right term as im using more then 1 adjuster.. Bound Loop with biner on tail end of Lanyard to harness & AP2 for main Lanyard... You know for bypassing unions, etc.... Is that called a DEDA or 2in1

I have tried the black 8mm beeline E2E & on the tail end as well as on the main hitch on my lanyard.. (Rook lanyard). I found it wasn't grabbing every time & needed to be monitored with a close eye. When got the AP2 i used the B-line e2e on the tail w/a distel for bypassing unions. However, when i did use it on the tail I ended up wanting something to tend it with (dog snap, shizl, pully, whatev..) but then it all seemed to get very clustered doing so, just too much going on.. So i just resorted to the simple bound loop that isnt as fluid, does grab hard but grabs everytime, however it can go on n' off very fast..

IDK.. I'm really still fine tuning this setup.. All these mechanical devices & fancy techniques are very new to me.. I'm used to a very basic style of climbing... (hence alot of my newb questions) Basic, as in.. when advancing your flipline you hold on for dear life.. & once your up there, your on a Blake's & that's it, nothing else.. No wonder i never felt comfortable before.. i never knew these safer standards existed because no one ever showed me or used them themselves.. I was also trying to climb with spurs that landed in the middle of my shins.. no wonder i hated cimbing..

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