The Illusion of Safety: Safe vs. Safer vs. Safer-er

[Steve Connally]

I wonder if wing suit makers have to worry about telling their customers to not fly too close to the wall. Or if the makers of rock shoes should tell Alex honnald to please climb with an f-ing rope. You climb trees with ropes and chainsaws and make massive cuts on unpredictable wood. that's a career choice for jackasses. Are you concerned with Sherrill giving this guy swag in exchange for lots of #Sherrill posts and hits? you can't deny Travors skill with a go pro either. he takes genuinely good pictures.

Apples and oranges on the shoes. Trad climbing is an accepted sport. The wing suit I have no response. Good question. I’d like to hear their answer. All I’m saying is of all the potential poster children in our industry they chose this one. I’d want my guy compliant to the t. That’s the biz I’d run but clearly I’m not. Lol

 

[moss]

Didn’t know they sponsored it. If it in fact was, that was wrong. First of all it was trespassing. That’s a crime. Secondly I’m sure the crane owner wouldn’t have signed off on it. It did look cool but I also thought it was stupid and reckless. I’m the guy who has to risk my life to rescue those idiots.

I don't know that treeStuff sponsored it. Everyone was super tight-lipped about it, just heard literally whispered rumors. Yep, trespass, everything, totally non-permitted ;-) He lived another day. I get it Steve that you see a lot of the worse of what happens when humans screw up and get messed up.

 

[DSMc]

.... You climb trees with ropes and chainsaws and make massive cuts on unpredictable wood. that's a career choice for jackasses....

Speak for yourself, young fella. Tree work is not "unpredictable" once you figure out what you are doing.

I have heard you make disparaging remarks about tree work many times. I do it because I enjoy it and I can make things better for trees and people. Just curious, why are you in the tree business?

 

[Steve Connally]

So Kevin, just to sum up my standing on this.......This entire thread was a debate on principle. The principle in question was that of safety. So my argument is based on my principle. Do I care about Trevor and what he does, not in the least. Do I care about what sherrill does or doesn't do? Not really to be honest. I don't shop with them or Treestuff anymore. So the principle of 2 major gear distribution companies sponsoring (A) questionable work practices (b) the criminal trespassing for a video is frustrating to me. Lets dive rite in. Matt was ruined because "his views don't coincide with the tree stuff community" Not his actions, his words. (this directly effects me by the way financially with my gear). Also the way sherrill has turned away ideas or innovations because of the potential of unsafe situations only to put their logo on a guy who embodies the very things they claim to stand against. Will the fallen climber fund cover me if I screw up a showboating stunt and end up with a head injury from an uncontrolled swing when it clearly wasn't an accident but my recklessness? To me it's hypocritical to say the least. So on principle I am opposed to any industry sponsored individual who showboats in any way that could be construed as unsafe or questionably unsafe. I think it's cool to do what you do. You are an amazing climber. You could say i'm too chicken to do what you do, I call it conservative. I have enough fun working in the trees. I don't need to take huge swings or do flips to enjoy my day. I don't have that thirst for it. Much like snowboarding. I'm conservative. Do I love the extreme guys video's. Heck yes. Do I secretly wish I could do that? Heck yes, but the repercussions for a stunt gone wrong would impact everyone who depends on me. I can't do it, or won't. Every time I consider it I run the video of Shawn White smashing his face on the half pipe through my head. Not much is worth that for me. So I will just end this with i'm talking principle here. Trevor doesn't effect my life. He's good at media, he makes questionable stuff look cool just like johnny pro. In the end I get paid to make cuts, not stunts. I'm very happy there. I respect you and moss seeing this totally differently than I do. More power to you. Thats the beauty of it.

 

[treebing]

I got into tree work probably in a similar way travor did. he did gymnastics, climbed stuff as a kid. so did I. I have taken massive whippers rock climbing... I used to bumper hitch ups trucks on my rollerblades to get to school in the morning. I have also always loved trees and plants. It seriously has never crossed my mind since I have thought of careers ever to be anything but a tree guy. I don't like removals, travor is a removal guy. I guess I don't see back flips done by a gymnast as unsafe. is there anything else that travor has done or posted that gets people upset. I saw someone was mad that he had a homemade rope bridge.

 

[treebing]

I've watched some stuff in August Heineke videos that has made me wince. That said, he makes some great videos. he is sponsored by all kinds of folks. he got a morbark chipper just for making sweet videos.

 

[treebing]

if you want to talk about the Matt Cornell stuff don't get me started, that pissed me off big time.

 

[Steve Connally]

if you want to talk about the Matt Cornell stuff don't get me started, that pissed me off big time.

me too

 

[treehumper]

Wow.... Here's the thing, climbing is not the work we are paid for, its tree care, whatever that may entail. Client's don't call us up and ask if we climb trees and how much it costs to do so. Climbing and all that goes into it is a means to access the work site. There may be some curiosity by those paying the bill regarding how we go about doing our work. Some are even surprised that we climb. Soon, Steve will be essentially competing against that with the new rig.

Liken it to a doctor driving to work, while doing donuts and drifting might make the commute more fun it's not even a consideration. Imagine them posting the video, Here I am drifting into the hospital parking lot to get to the OR! Cue the shocked commentary...

Now a gymnast or trapeze artist is paid to do flips and dazzling routines, we're not. Clients pay us to not die or get maimed on the job. If Travor or anyone else is demonstrating some cool moves in a tree involving ropes and such they can do it without the context being in a work setting for tree care.

The reality is most of our workplaces, commercial, residential or public properties are geared toward minimizing risk. At this time of year how many of those places are clearing snow and spreading ice melt? Why? Could it be that they wish no harm come to anyone entering onto their property? That's why we are supposed to exercise our best safe work practices.

 

[Pelorus]

if you want to talk about the Matt Cornell stuff don't get me started, that pissed me off big time.

Ditto.

 

[treebing]

Speak for yourself, young fella. Tree work is not "unpredictable" once you figure out what you are doing.

I have heard you make disparaging remarks about tree work many times. I do it because I enjoy it and I can make things better for trees and people. Just curious, why are you in the tree business?

I am in the tree business because I absolutely love it. I love putting my hands on the trees, I love the view, I love taking big swings, I love taking a big chunk of wood although I am saddened by killing trees. I love the gear, the machinery, I love working in a different organism everyday. I love the smell of it. What I don't understand is people who do this work that don't love it. People that are doing it for money or a job. that's crazy to me. the business model from a financial perspective is horrible. At least in my non business oriented selfs experience. I have a hard time justifying my chosen trade other than the fact that I love it. I think being a plumber or a window cleaner or ANYTHING would be a better business to choose from if it was just a case of needing a job. One of my neighbor installs carpets, he is able to charge a similar hourly rate to tree work! another friend of mine installs granite countertops and makes a killing doing the same low overhead thing everyday.

I enjoy following Travor on Instagram. I was surprised how worked up people got over his flips. that's stuff to make the day go by for me. he is not putting himself in danger. I am much more worried about falling off my skateboard going to work then getting hurt flipping out of a tree or bombing out of a tree. I am a better climber than skateboarder. I don't think Sherrill is being irresponsible by giving him free gear. Also, if you go to his first posts, to his more recent posts there is an improvement in quality. He is learning.

 

[treebing]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BevyOOSn0sr/

here is Travors's most recent backflip. its pretty smooth. not a lot of shock loading. Should he not get props for that just because some uncoordinated dummy might try to do the same? why shouldn't Sherrill look at those videos views and realize that its well worth getting a #Sherrill in exchange for a few carabiners and a notch bag?

you could say travor is not representing tree workers well. But you could also say He does not have to represent tree workers in this instance but instead tree flippers. a whole different discipline, a valid a discipline as any, and one that requires gear.

 

[treehumper]

instead tree flippers. a whole different discipline, a valid a discipline as any, and one that requires gear.

Cool, yes! If that's what his client is paying him to do, sweet. That's the point, we are paid to do a job and that's care for the client's tree not use it as a prop for our aerial play. Maybe he could start a rec park called, "Flip, Flop and Fly" and put on a show along with having an aerial rope course where he can charge people to do the same. Then all parties involved, from his clients to the insurers and suppliers know what they're in for and can also charge accordingly.

 

[treebing]

I wouldn't do this work if I couldn't use my clients trees for my own fun. that is a big part of my compensation.

 

[treebing]

I wonder what Travors boss thinks about it. he is a production climber and is doing tree work hard everyday. I am sure he is not flipping around the whole time. but those do get more likes than another top dropping which is 90% of other tree peoples Instagram posts. borrrring.

 

[treehumper]

I wouldn't do this work if I couldn't use my clients trees for my own fun. that is a big part of my compensation.

Great if your client's knowingly enter into a contract with you on that basis. Just as they may only hire me on the basis of a thorough clean up and no damage to their lawn and landscape in general. I'll charge for that. Think of going to Benihana's for a steak dinner. You're going there and paying the price with the expectation of the chef putting on a show.

 

[DSMc]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BevyOOSn0sr/
here is Travors's most recent backflip...

You honestly see nothing wrong with what he did on that Instagram? What about the rope being in-between his legs at the start of the flip? That is not a workplace move that I would want to see from an employee of mine.

 

[treebing]

You honestly see nothing wrong with what he did on that Instagram? What about the rope being in-between his legs at the start of the flip? That is not a workplace move that I would want to see from an employee of mine.

No I thought it looked great for a back flip. whats the matter with the rope between his legs? I also think this particular flip takes place at his own home on his own time.

 

[treebing]

Great if your client's knowingly enter into a contract with you on that basis. Just as they may only hire me on the basis of a thorough clean up and no damage to their lawn and landscape in general. I'll charge for that. Think of going to Benihana's for a steak dinner. You're going there and paying the price with the expectation of the chef putting on a show.

my clients have no clue what I'm doing. I do like putting on a show for them if they want to watch because Im that way. But for the most part they have no idea they are paying me to test gear, run prototypes, as well as have fun. I have never had any negative feedback for enjoying myself while at work.

 

[Toomuchsawdust]

I just want to say I'm impressed at how civilized this conversation is. Well done.