What happened to the Matt Cornell Rope Saddle?

If Matt really believes women are slaves as in -
a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
...then he is a kook in my opinion. If he is in a relationship with someone who desire to play that role... then they are welcome to have at it... if he is out buying women or capturing them and holding them against their will, he is a criminal.
Still, I’m inclined to believe it was poor wording/not meaning that definition but rather his belief that Christian women should fill their gender role according to that belief system.
Truly today’s women are less inclined to chose that role and that should be each individuals choice.
 
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Flex Abednego said:
If Matt really believes women are slaves as in -
a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
...then he is a kook in my opinion. If he is in a relationship with someone who desire to play that role... then they are welcome to have at it... if he is out buying women or capturing them and holding the against their will, he is a criminal.
Still, I’m inclined to believe it was poor wording/not meaning that definition but rather his belief that Christian women should fill their gender role according to that belief system.
Truly today’s women are less inclined to chose that role and that should be each individuals choice.
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Yeah, I see what you mean about the wording...

I'm still not interested in the biblical patriarchy type of power structure, but definitely each his own on that, if it's consensual...
 
colb said:
Respectfully, it's really easy to fall back on pregnancy as a case for instituting fairness in place of equality. Big problems. First, women don't have to become pregers. Next, the duration of pregnancy is very small over the whole course of a woman's life. If they live for 100 years, that's approximately a 1/120th/pregnancy advantage in time productivity that a man has over a woman. Implicit is the argument that a woman who gives birth will also raise the kids, which isn't necessarily the case (particular respect to @Steve Connally and all parents who provide substantial availability to their children). Almost everywhere I look, there is much greater *overlap* between the abilities of different sexes than there is outstandingly exclusive ability. On the track, the fastest men run a small fraction of time faster. Same with weights, vocabulary (where women often excell over men). In almost every case a woman can step into a role that is traditionally a man's role, and vice versa, there is far more equality than disparity. Because of that, we should almost always expect equality. Almost always is a lot.

I depend on asymmetrical fairness in those infrequent instances where equality isn't viable, or when the fairness is by consent. Egalitarianism by consent has its problems, but it should be a fundamental expectation unless assymetry is negotiated in a spirit of fairness. So I like how you're phrasing "put equality on the shelf", just concerned that it means "traditional gender roles" instead of the plain language that you typed out.

We are wayyy down the rabbit hole here though. In truth, the MCRS is an issue born of fairly outdated patriarchal principles - the bad ones. We don't really need to finesse all this to call a spade a spade. He agrees that women are slaves. When he unagrees, maybe I will reconsider the lesser issues I have with those posts...
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Pregnancy was just an easy and obvious example. I like the fact that we'e so different. Otherwise I might be attracted to men, which I'm not. Theres no minor overlap, grey area or denial in that department. I'm assuming most of the members here are also that way inclined. Its really nothing to feel bad about.
 
Reg said:
...The victimization and surpression of women.....I'm just not aware of it. So where is it exactly?
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Hi Reg, agree with a lot of what you are saying but I might be able to shed some light on this question. Two simple examples from the bigger pile: first the wage gap, the numbers are slightly different in the UK but not much, here in the US if your wife did the same job as you, just as well, with the exact same level of experience, training, and expertise. She would likely get 30% less in her paycheck just for being a woman. If you went to go get paid and someone said "because you're male we decided to dock your pay 30%" you would never put up with it. But for some reason we as a society let that happen to women every day.

Second, 1 out of 4 women in this country get sexually assaulted in their lifetime. It's higher for women in the military and some other careers, and much higher in some other countries. Can you imagine how fast something like that would get fixed if white men like you and I had a 25% chance of being pinned down and raped by some bigger and stronger dudes? How would your life change if that risk was your reality, and the people around you that had the power to fix it, just didn't see that as a problem because it wasn't one for them?

To the group - on the saddle question, the comments from Matt would be enough to sour me personally on buying a product he made unless he changed that stance, but knowing Steve has one, and likes it, doesn't bother me a bit, he has always been a stand up guy, and I don't feel the need to go questioning everyone's motives. That goes the same for the rest of you wherever you land on this.

For me that comes down to the root of it all. We have a problem in western culture right now with contempt. Whether it's someone who looks, acts, or talks different. Has different life experiences and background, complains about problems we can't easily see, has different political or religious views, whatever. We jump to contempt. "That person must be a hopeless idiot, and completely inferior to me and my way of thinking."
This poisoning of minds is at the core of our need to brexit, and Trump, and eventually shoot or nuke the folks we used to go have a drink with.

The way to reverse this sucks. Because it would mean we have to listen to people we can't stand, and choose to find some truth in their experience instead of writing them off as idiots. It would mean being wrong sometimes and changing, instead of already knowing everything. It would mean doing the best you can with what you have, and assuming everyone around you is doing the same. This lecture is for me more than anyone, I'm tired of this mess we made, and I'm just picking a different direction.
 
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FreeFallin said:
Hi Reg, agree with a lot of what you are saying but I might be able to shed some light on this question. Two simple examples from the bigger pile: first the wage gap, the numbers are slightly different in the UK but not much, here in the US if your wife did the same job as you, just as well, with the exact same level of experience, training, and expertise. She would likely get 30% less in her paycheck just for being a woman. If you went to go get paid and someone said "because your male we decided to dock your pay 30%" you would never put up with it. But for some reason we as a society let that happen to women every day.

Second, 1 out of 4 women in this country get sexually assaulted in their lifetime. It's higher for women in the military and some other careers, and much higher in some other countries. Can you imagine how fast something like that would get fixed if white men like you and I had a 25% chance of being pinned down and raped by some bigger and stronger dudes? How would your life change if that risk was your reality, and the people around you that had the power to fix it, just didn't see that as a problem because it wasn't one for them?

To the group - on the saddle question, the comments from Matt would be enough to sour me personally on buying a product he made unless he changed that stance, but knowing Steve has one, and likes it, doesn't bother me a bit, he has always been a stand up guy, and I don't feel the need to go questioning everyone's motives. That goes the same for the rest of you wherever you land on this.

For me that comes down to the root of it all. We have a problem in western culture right now with contempt. Whether it's someone who looks, acts, or talks different. Has different life experiences and background, complains about problems we can't easily see, has different political or religious views, whatever. We jump to contempt. "That person must be a hopeless idiot, and completely inferior to me and my way of thinking."
This poisoning of minds is at the core of our need to brexit, and Trump, and eventually shoot or nuke the folks we used to go have a drink with.

The way to reverse this sucks. Because it would mean we have to listen to people we can't stand, and choose to find some truth in their experience instead of writing them off as idiots. It would mean being wrong sometimes and changing, instead of already knowing everything. It would mean doing the best you can with what you have, and assuming everyone around you is doing the same. This lecture is for me more than anyone, I'm tired of this mess we made, and I'm just picking a different direction.
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No worries, thanks for the info and insight.

Firstly, I lived in Canada for nearly 7 years now, so I'm not totally in touch with current affairs in the UK. I should add, I felt there was plenty justification to leave at the time.

My wife couldn't do my job. That's the reality of it. And If I trained and attempted to do hers, at best I might aspire to get through half of the work she does.

Re: the wages situation. When jobs are listed on the US, is the pay unknown or withheld ?

If the pay is listed, does it distinguish between male and female candidates ?

Rape and sexual assault is a heinous crime on any level, undertaken by sexual predators and opportunists usually. Whilst one would hope to see the 1:4 statistics diminish, theres nothing to suggest that evil intent wont still remain. And while women raping men seems like a physical impossibility, that's not to suggest they aren't capable of explotation, sexual assualt and pedophilia where there has been opportunity. Abusers are not confined to the male population, which is fact.....its just that the opportunity is less to impose their intent.

My wife hasn't been raped, perhaps because she doesn't leave herself vulerable. She could well exercise her right to walk down a dark alley at midnight, but her better judgement tells het not to take that chance in the first place.

As we're on statistics, I'm more likely to be a victim of knife crime in London than what my wife is, because I'm a man. If we look at the military, I'm betting the casualty rate of men v women on the battle field is off the scale, through history to the present. Nobodies asking to correct that imbalance. That's just the way it is.

I don't share Matt's views either. But I think even less of the self appointed hierarchys, pack mentality that inevitably surfaces on these web mediums when an individuals views don't fit with the current programme. That's all I can input this thread. Glad to be individual and independent. Peace.
 
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Even though I won't discuss my personal feelings on the deep, deep subjects (can't be accurately talked about over the inter webs, needs to be a person to person to avoid misunderstandings) I appreciate all the thought and effort you guys have put on here with your long posts and deep thoughts. Nobody is walking away butt hurt, we all still get along. Thats the difference with this place over the webs. Lots of threats and profane gestures would have been thrown by now. Much respect to all of you!!
 
Flex Abednego said:
Wage gap is not true
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Well, ask professor Goldin the same question a week later, and the story starts changing...

"There's room for honest disagreement over the precise role that different factors play in causing the gender gap. But, Goldin says, discrimination is clearly part of the story. "There's no question that there is" discrimination, she said. “We see incredible evidence of it in court cases that reach the front pages.” One such case made news just last month, when 16 women filed a class action lawsuit against Sterling Jewelers, which owns Jared and Kay. The suit alleges, among other things, that women were routinely paid less than similar or less qualified men and denied promotions that would have increased their pay. (The suit also alleges severe instances of sexual harassment, some perpetrated on the very women being paid less.)" --from a New Republic article

It's certainly not as bad as some say, but that hardly means it's nonexistent. People love to clip out the details that don't fit their point of view and run with it. Not the first time the Washington Examiner has done that. Goldin seems to be a favorite victim.
 
Reg said:
Firstly, I lived in Canada for nearly 7 years now,
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See, that's why I need to watch more of your vids, I'm out of touch. You do amazing jobs, and crack me up sometimes making me want to invest in umbrellas ;) but your location was a complete assumption on my part.

For wages - careers like arborist, military, and fishing require skills that give many men physical advantages, so those would make it hard to spot a wage gap since abilities are often not the same, many other careers like office jobs are more physically neutral so the wage gap is more obvious.

In the US most jobs are posted with either a pay range, or "depends on experience". In both cases they found that women are consistently hired at lower rates than men, even with the same experience and ability to do the work.

As for assault, of course women are capable of devious things, but as an argument that's like saying "child abuse is bad, but children do bad things too" it doesn't fix anything. It's the same for women just not walking down dark alleys, which is not bad, as a solution for rape, which is bad. It's like saying "let's not stop child abusers, let's just teach kids to shut up."

I just think we can all do better at seeing things that make life miserable for some citizens, and do things to make the actual problems go away.
I'm not looking for some warm fuzzy rainbow land where we are all equal, I'm just saying as a society let's pay women for what they do, and try to be less rapey.
 
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Flex Abednego said:
Wage gap is not true

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth/article/2580405

http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/

Hardly any women in the commercial fishing industry, at least out on boats. The few I’ve met get paid equal percentages to there male counterparts. The one I briefly worked with was no where near fit for the job. No hate, just my personal experience
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Edit: I think it's interesting that in both these articles they try really hard to prove that women are not discriminated against... by saying that women generally make dumber employment choices. :risas:

Flex, I can post a hundred articles "proving" just the opposite, but this is a lot more fun and it takes hypocrisy jabs at both sides -

Cheers, and climb on :aburrido:
 
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I don't have a whole lot to add here. I may engage several of you individually just because the mass of posts makes it hard to have any sort of coherent conversation.

Anyone who has strong feelings on any part of this that does not directly relate to the sale of the MCRS should look into the field of personality psychology. It has proven to be very enlightening to me (in both personal and professional interactions), is strongly tied to statistics, and doesn't have that "special snowflake" inclination that the other psychology fields seem to exhibit. It (attempts to) explain not only how each of us handles life, but also how we become who we are.
I understand that it is not clear how this relates to the topic(s) at hand, but there is a clear delineation between male and female culture, which we all have a hand in creating.
I try to be fair and reasonable in my judgement of others as individuals, and not like most people try to be fair (I know, I know. It's terrible, but I spend a lot of time and a lot of energy on it. Pretending that everyone is just as capable without the practice isn't fair to the few who put in the time). I know that it takes someone who is strong, smart, willing to do scary things, willing to accept responsibility when it doesn't work right and ready to do it all again to be worth as much as I am when performing my craft. There are far more men with those attributes than women, simply because of the way that men are raised. That is fair. People are all different, and any of them can try to do my job. Only the good ones can have it for long (certainly if they expect my pay). Equality of opportunity is the real goal. Equality of outcome only punishes the ones who would excel.

@colb Your heart is in the right place, but thinking that I can't fairly represent someone simply because I can pee standing up is untrue. It is as untrue as pretending that any woman who showed up to speak is capable of representing the whole of their gender. That's half the planet.
 
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FreeFallin said:
See, that's why I need to watch more of your vids, I'm out of touch. You do amazing jobs, and crack me up sometimes making me want to invest in umbrellas ;) but your location was a complete assumption on my part.

For wages - careers like arborist, military, and fishing require skills that give many men physical advantages, so those would make it hard to spot a wage gap since abilities are often not the same, many other careers like office jobs are more physically neutral so the wage gap is more obvious.

In the US most jobs are posted with either a pay range, or "depends on experience". In both cases they found that women are consistently hired at lower rates than men, even with the same experience and ability to do the work.

As for assault, of course women are capable of devious things, but as an argument that's like saying "child abuse is bad, but children do bad things too" it doesn't fix anything. It's the same for women just not walking down dark alleys, which is not bad, as a solution for rape, which is bad. It's like saying "let's not stop child abusers, let's just teach kids to shut up."

I just think we can all do better at seeing things that make life miserable for some citizens, and do things to make the actual problems go away.
I'm not looking for some warm fuzzy rainbow land where we are all equal, I'm just saying as a society let's pay women for what they do, and try to be less rapey.
Click to expand...

I think you have missed my point regarding sexual assaults. In that the 1:4 incident rate that you brought up previously, is not an equality issue. Its a crime, with victims, rather. No better or worse than sexual crimes committed by women. Its just that the opportunities might be more feasible to some people more than others. They are all scumbags with intent in their heart nonetheless. Its a mistake to judge people by your own reasoning and sense of right and wrong. They don't think the same. They don't empathize. Your not going to just say something that'll hit home and transform them. So my advice remains, don't walk down dark alleys at midnight.

The last time I was employed was roughly 25 years ago at a company called Olivers. Financially, there was a lot of unfairness through the hierarchy of the workforce. It was an all male company, I should point out. I felt very strongly that I was worth more than some of the others who'd been there longer. Because I was better than them, more skilled, more productive. As much as I protested the fact, it would've been a long battle ahead to correct that situation. An all to familiar story....but it doesn't make me or anyone else a 'victim'.

So I made the decision to leave and go self employed, which holds a whole world of pros, cons and sometimes unfair situations to this day. But stay or leave it was my decision. I took lots of other good stuff from working at Olivers, to be fair....and Ill always be grateful for the opportunity they gave me. If you choose to be an employee, to a large extent you are choosing to be dependant on your employer. Dependant on them to find work for you to get paid for, among other things. They don't owe you a job by any means. So you can either accept the terms, conditions and prospects.....or not work there. Irrespective of gender. There's always a choice.

Entitlement, me-first, me-too or whatever its called, doesn't really register here. And that's just how I feel about it. I wonder how itd be received if these campaigners and celebs took their tales of woe and injustice to the slums of Haiti, Nicaragua, Somalia, Nigeria, India, Pakistan, the Philippines ect, see how that goes down. Talk about self absorbed.

If you're truly looking for an equality imbalance of the most serious significance, got to a war cemetery. Where's the equality for all those dead men who willingly gave up their lives ? You don't hear Oprah talking about that in the context of me-first/too.

Much less serious, closer to home, but related.....I keep hearing this echo that 'we need more women in the tree industry'. Really....why ? As is, are we doing such a bad job ? The girls I've worked with are doing just fine also. Happy as. And they not the ones complaining. But no, on paper we must have balance in this day and age. Right ?

I work for lots of rich men and women here in Victoria. Id like to have what they have, but I never will. My limitations wont allow it. I don't begrudge those people. I don't feel hard done by. Instead I seek wealth and happiness in other parts of my life.

Quote: "We can all do better". That's cool, you do better if you want....but I think I'm doing alright as is. And there's plenty more like me that feel the same as I do. No offence brother.
 
No offense taken and none intended brother, I think you do the Reg thing just fine, no judgements from me.

I don't need to convince everyone to think exactly like I do because the world would be a bizarre and boring place.

Climb on :birra:
 
An enlightening interview which touches on the many issues discussed in this thread such as men's responsibility, the gender pay gap and problem of political correctness.

Well worth a look if you have the time

 
TC said:
An enlightening interview which touches on the many issues discussed in this thread such as men's responsibility, the gender pay gap and problem of political correctness.

Well worth a look if you have the time

Click to expand...

Almost everything from him is worth a listen.
 
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