TimberJack
Participating member
- Location
- Westchester County, NY
Wider is better!!! The MT 55 I run at work is the narrow track version and has been tipped over a handful of times.
New Toro Tx 1000 Wide Track
- Thread starter OasisTree
- Start date
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
Your grapple sucks.
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
I learned til it hurt that the bmg sucks.............
I dunno man. I demoed the vermeer grapple a few weeks ago and was wondering why anyone would buy it. big, bulky, one less axis of rotation... Felt like I would take all day on narrow jobs, and also felt like I would put too much stress on it from wagging wood around in random directions. The bmg really dissipates forces. Vermeer makes some great stuff and I really appreciate a lot of their engineering, but I feel really productive with my floppy bmg...
Merle Nelson
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- SF Bay Area, CA
Colb what do you run a BMG on? (Mini or articulating.)
Ditch Witch Sk650 mini
I can't really drag things with the vermeer grapple, with no rotational freedom in the up/down plane. With full size brush clumps, I can't get it around the tight corner as easily without putting the tips down at some point. With the bigger logs, well, I was dragging 20' 20" pine logs around a dirt pasture the other day. Can't do that without all axes of rotation...
The vermeer grapple and mini are really optimized for a production setting where guys with limited brains and limited machine hours are using it, and that is not my style. It limits the possibilities, making it 1/2 or 2/3rds the mini that I'm running around with. I'm usually the operator. My groundies use it infrequently to shuffle stuff away from the tree, or in wide open spaces. Some of my groundies can put all kinds of hurt on the mini + bmg and personal property because it is a sensitive, precise rig. Others understand it and get some real work done.
For me, the vermeer philosophy inhibits my chi. The big hip bumpers are kind of 'merican. If used, they hold the body rigidly in vertical position and force all the bumps straight up your spinal column. The joystick is precise but more complex than my dual track controls, and I can't hang on to the rail for balance while using it. I think that's why they have the big hip bumpers, but it's hard to see/move backwards with hips pointing forwards. The reverse ground speed is slow, which is a huge, bad deal. The tip weight on the new vermeer seems fine - both machines lifted a tippy live oak log. But with the grapple issue, tip weight only matters on big short logs, so the vermeer has most of its issues before it tips.
There is a noted exception where the vermeer mini stands out: the access to the vermeer engine compartment and the internal organization is doggone amazing and puts my 2011 DW sk650 to shame. The side panels detach and the rear access panel houses maintenance apparatuses (oil, coolant, air filter etc) within easy reach. You can see and reach just about anything. I got burned on the top of my hand while using an atlas glove to remove the hot radiator cap on my Sk650. Some clever dw engineer put the cap just barely within reach of a normal-sized forearm, accessed through the articulation control port in the control plate, with the control handle in the furthest-up position. Wouldn't happen on a vermeer, or if I'd been smarter, lol.
Nice to see these minis evolving.
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treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
Dingo grapple boys. The best by far.
I am having a hard time thinking why you hate the grapple so much, and I thought maybe you got one of the few I made where I chinched out on the hoses. I sized the hoses down to a 3/8 from 1/2" and they were so flimsey the grapple would not return on its own to horizontal. It made as you say the grapple a PIA . I went back to the bigger hoses which very simply bring the grapple back to Horizontal, that is key to the BMG working efficiently. Now for old guys, maybe ya might be better suited to my powered rotation BMGR to give you the control you missed or seek.
In my experience all my crews given the choice they preferred the rotating bypass grapple to a "bucket style" grapple. If your not chipping, not in tight access's a horizontal grapple works great, and its definitely more useful on certain jobs.
I tend to believe and most people agree that a rotating bypass grapple works better on most of the residential jobs we do. In 20 years of doing tree work with my BMG and talking to 100's of tree guys across the country, Very few guys with "experience" have told me they prefer a Bucket style style over a BMG style, probably can count them on 1 hand.
To each its own , butt imperacly you are in the minority on this attachment discussion.
If the one you tried had the wimpy hoses I certainly understand your disgust, I do not remember you calling me as I offer a money back no questions asked guaranty. I have only bought 1 BMG back from a guy in Mississippi years back, a funny story he preferred no attachment because of the capacity loss, and swore a choker rope tied to the hitch plate was the best way to move brush and logs.
No offense to vermeer bypass grapple owners but the hanger is designed wrong, the pin in thing usually will shear and it will not drag or chip brush efficiently. comments from owners of vermeers
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treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
I disagree and your experience does not impress me as I have over twice what you have. Also since you sell the BMG you just might be a little biased. The Bmg has the weight out too far, loses lift height compared to a "clam" style grapple...and you can doze pieces apart and together if nec to grab a bunch if desired with a "clam" grapple. "Imperacly" "Emperically?" the grapple I use is far superior to yours which cannot doze pieces as well and flops when trying to dive between pieces. I've had em both....yours sucks...although the power rotating unit must be a big improvement.
Luzl78
Participating member
- Location
- Colts neck
Each grapple has its advantages but for moving brush and feeding chippers the bmg non power is key. I run an old implemax on a swinger and I can feed and load like it's an extension of my body.
Gorman
Branched out member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Demand drives the market. If his grapple sucked so much I would imagine not too many people would continue to buy it.
No one does the same job the same exact way.
No one does the same job the same exact way.
tc262
Branched out member
- Location
- SE Wisconsin
Some of the most unproductive and biggest hacks in my area are the tree services that advertise 25+35+ years experience ect. Just because you've been doing it a long time doesn't mean you've stepped out of the stone age. Hell some of them are still lashing piles of brush with a rope and dragging them to the chipper, then chipping by hand. I've used both and by far prefer the bmg over the clam jobbers on the mini.
Some people just don't get it,
I doubt most people even know what it is,
or have had the treat of forwarding on a swinger with an implemax
Heres a Toro! oldies but goodies
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Theres a Toro in this old video derail derail
I would suspect quite a bit more skidding and driving on the lawn
with a horizontal style grapple in this particular job scenario
Operator has about a year and half of operating on the machine and grapple,
works for a legend in the industry.
I would suspect quite a bit more skidding and driving on the lawn
with a horizontal style grapple in this particular job scenario
Operator has about a year and half of operating on the machine and grapple,
works for a legend in the industry.
Luzl78
Participating member
- Location
- Colts neck
We all want to be efficient. We try to either eliminate employees or make it easier for everybody to do the work. We still need the employees to drive the trucks to the jobs. These days, a wheeled Zahn with a bmg or an avant is the best for residential. The Zahn is best for brush as it doesn't lift but #400 and the avant picks up #1,200. Each person has what works for them and I feel the aggressive talk about Dave is uncalled for. I feel just meeting him a couple of times that he's a honest and fair person and lead a prospective buyer or non buyer to what works best for them
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
Dumb fucks like you are the first to tout their own experience and then in a complete 360...denigrate someone with far more experience than them...crazy but it is true. "euuuuuuuuuuuuuu....some of em are still lashing piles of brush with a rope and dragging em to the chipper...blllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh fkn blah". You got a bmg....lah di dahhh. It sucks compared to the toro grapple with your piece flapping all over the place because you have to wonder "where is the balance point?
