Where do you start training a new climber?

[Phil]

Its fascinating seeing all the new climbing devices coming to market. Its got me wondering where folks that train new climbers, either "on the job" or as part of an actual organized training program (school, weekend course etc.) start the skill set and knowledge development. More specifically phrased: is the blakes hitch on a closed MRS system still taught as the starting point so new climbers have an appreciation for the mechanicals and hybrids and also have the ability to climb if the mechanical fails? I see a lot of new climbers wanting to jump straight to SRS and show up to trainings with brand new devices ready to go.

My method and preference is to show and demonstrate the blakes on a closed MRS system, they get to tie it up, climb on it a few times and then we move on to hitch climber pulleys and prusic cords, then move on to zig zag in MRS, then move on to SRS with various devices.

They may never use a blakes again but part of me thinks the fundamentals are going to slip away eventually as they get left in the dust by new tech.

I don't train in an "on the job" environment where time equals money so I don't mind spending half a day on ancient techniques. I'm curious how this happens in the real working world. Especially for small operations.

 

[Reach]

We are a small operation, and I have trained a number of climbers over the years. We always train with a Blakes hitch first. My opinion is that is very important, as with nothing but one piece of rope and the knowledge to tie a Blakes hitch system, one can always get out of a tree.

Mechanical devices are wonderful, that’s pretty much all I use anymore myself if I do climb, but they can fail. The Blakes hitch always works.

 

[ATH]

I know this isn't necessary what you are asking, but I'll throw it out here anyway:
I've started with training how to prune on the ground. Unless they are proficient with what they will do once in the tree, it kinda doesn't matter how proficient their climbing skills are.

I barely learned on a Blake's myself and haven't had any reason or desire to revisit that in 20 years. I've started teaching with a hitch cord and pulley, the mechanicals. I don't climb a lot of SRS myself, but have introduced it to a couple people I taught.

I've also used a double end lanyard with a prussic so they are never not double tied in even when moving. But reconsider the benefit of that vs 2 lanyards with ART positioner on each (or 1 Positioner and 1 with a hitch know and pulley) because it's so much easier to adjust.

 

[RyanCafferky]

I like my guys to start with a prussik and pulley. But we also try to send them to an actual class at a Portland community college where they learn all the fundamentals and it isn’t coming from the boss in a production environment.

 

[Brando CalPankian]

I tend to start them in spikes on an eye to eye system. We do targeted trainings for closed systems, as it does come into play occasionally. Srt is introduced first on a spar so they feel comfortable being able to rappel down, then after they can access the tree on mrs we target access using srt.

There's a lot of variables with srt that can get someone hurt out of the gate. Between that and the physical stamina aspect. If they can't climb mrs they'll have a hard time figuring out the brute force needed for srt.

We have a registered apprenticeship as well. So they have books and classes they are learning along side tangible trainings. They generally start with deadwood pruning or easy removals and move into pruning as they develop an eye for it.

 

[evo]

I wouldn’t say I’ve been successful in training a climber. So many people like the idea more than the reality of the grind.
But I will ‘rec’ climb with the person a few times, starting them off low and on srt or Mrs using the most efficient smooth system the tree calls for. I focus on getting into the tree, moving around and having fun.

After they get a taste for it they get grounded to a Blake’s. I’m from the camp they need to know how to tie it with muscle memory. From there they then progress back to mrs with more ‘modern’ styles, and finally back into srt.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Tree Climbers Companion

 

[pcpTR33]

Utility “boot camp” teaches Blake’s hitch and closed system then progress’s to basic open system (prussic and pulley), they like to teach the Blake’s still as a I have absolutely nothing else with me but I can make it to the ground. It’s nice because they do have to climb on the closed system so they get to actually feel the difference in systems. I’ve talked with some municipal guys who will start apprentices on SRS and then work on MRS after but I’m not a fan of that personally but seems to work out ok for them

 

[john.massing]

Closed system Blake's hitch.

I started with the closed system Blake's hitch and have progressed from there to open systems with hitch cord and mechanicals for application to MRS and SRS.

I use the Blake's hitch in rigging to make a one off limb balancer with zero extra gear. I used to use a closed system with the Blake's hitch as a secondary system on the end of my rope.

These are fundamental skills all climbers should know.

 

[Friedrich]

I tend to start them in spikes on an eye to eye system. We do targeted trainings for closed systems, as it does come into play occasionally. Srt is introduced first on a spar so they feel comfortable being able to rappel down, then after they can access the tree on mrs we target access using srt.

There's a lot of variables with srt that can get someone hurt out of the gate. Between that and the physical stamina aspect. If they can't climb mrs they'll have a hard time figuring out the brute force needed for srt.

We have a registered apprenticeship as well. So they have books and classes they are learning along side tangible trainings. They generally start with deadwood pruning or easy removals and move into pruning as they develop an eye for it.

what is that brute force used for?

 

[Brando CalPankian]

what is that brute force used for?

Walking up the rope efficiently. When they're first learning setting up efficient mechanical advantage for limb walks takes time. Advancing in the tree. The things seasoned climbers take for granted. You'd be surprised how many people can't walk up a tree in spikes let alone stay composed when exhausted from being in the tree and having to make decisions. Simple first.

 

[southsoundtree]

I've got a 3' deodora cedar at home. That's my frequent starter tree. Larger, ladder rung limbs starting at 15'. Ropewalk or ladder start. MRS or SRT. Too clogged with limbs to descend EDIT -ANYTHING BUT- slowly .


I like a base-tie SRT with steel lanyard for early training of aerial cutting.


In the same tree or very close in adjacent trees instruction is a Huge help.

 

[moss]

I'm not actively teaching new climbers as I used to. I used to climb rope wrench when I had them on a Blake's system. Some might say "eat your own dogfood", ie: if you're teaching Blake's, climb Blake's. Reason I haven't is I want quick mobility and full access across the entire crown especially when I have multiple students on rope.

I'm saying all this because on one of my teaching sessions I decided to eat my own dogfood and climb Blake's/closed system. It was pretty awesome, woke up some movement and muscles I hadn't been using. For me it was more physically demanding than SRT. That's because my brain and muscles have achieved as much body efficiency as I can for SRT climbing. and it is intrinsically more efficient for many other reasons. I used to be much more efficient climbing a closed or open "moving rope/hitch" system.

It's really difficult to overcome subjectivity as a teacher. However you climb "is the best". I learned early in my SRT climbing... I put a person who was well versed in MRS hitch climbing on to an SRT system. They were tenacious enough to make a big ascent but strained an arm tendon doing so. Healed fine but hurt them for a couple weeks. MRS or SRS(T) is challenging to climb when the body mechanics haven't been learned and internalized.

Agree with everyone who says put them on a closed Blake's system to start. So much is learned even if they switch to another system 2 weeks later, it is not time wasted.
-AJ

 

[Phil]

if you're teaching Blake's, climb Blake's. Reason I haven't is I want quick mobility and full access across the entire crown especially when I have multiple students on rope.

This is 100% my MO at a training. The general flow in an MRS class is: Blakes closed no micro pulley hipthrust ; show blakes closed micro pulley and explain differences ; show blakes open and explain differences ; eye'n'eye with hitch climber hip thrust ; add in foot ascender ; explain difference to my SRS system and why I am doing it one way but teaching another lol. ; MRS with mechanicals like zig zag.

I usually get to the eye'n'eye midway through the day. Also take time to do gear, tree and site inspection walkthroughs.

When I go to set bells in the tree for limb walks, I use the system they will.

I also just go up on their systems in rotation with them through out the day so I don't loose that muscle use familiarity.

 

[Bart_]

I did a first time introduction climb for my son's high school friends. I did the lesson learned in steps. First I hung a gym class rope (SRT base tied) and said "remember gym class?" and proceeded to torture each one in turn. The gymnast was barely able to get on and up the rope a bit. Then I set up a DRT line with a modern hitch, no auto tender and broke out the saddle. I explained pull down here, you go up, if you want to stay up you have to slide your hitch up. As step one, they leaned back into about 45 degree rope standing on the ground, then supported their full weight vertical. Of course I also showed them releasing the hitch to slide down. This was on a locust tree so the DRT TIP friction was awful. I let them armstrong it first before showing the Tom Jones "She's a lady whoa whoa whoa she's a lady" air humping technique Manly arm pump for all! Look at them biceps bulge and burn. Then I gave up the secret that your leg muscles are much stronger than your arm muscles and switched to base tied SRT, same hitch with a RW, no auto tender, right foot pantin. You could see the light bulbs going on in these guys heads. Then I hooked on the chest auto tending and the bulbs burned brighter. Hand over hand ascent every guy! As a coup de gras I demonstrated secret #2 the Haas by proceeding to rope walk all the way up to the tip relatively effortlesly in about 10 seconds, not even huffing. 2 legs better than one.

My intention was to leave a lasting memory and understanding of what worked how good. IMO lanyarding and tree grappling could come later. Limb walking, self hoisting in/out on tree structure. Multiple lines (eg long lanyard). Spikes is a bit later advanced because of perforation potential.

Saw skills is it's own topic.

In passing I watched a James Bond movie where he rock climbs to a castle like building yada yada throws the secret decoder module over the cliff so the bad guy can't have it. Forget the title. They did a few gnarly rope fall/catches but more interestingly Bond at the end of his SRT line uses his boot lace to make a prussic footloop to one leg it back up the line hand advancing the prussic. I guess he didn't have his jumar with him. Film was from 60's or 70's. What's new is old. I think the bootlace footloop prussic should be mythbusted With proper cordage would guaranteed work.

 

[Muggs]

I watched a James Bond movie where he rock climbs to a castle like building yada yada throws the secret decoder module over the cliff so the bad guy can't have it. Forget the title. They did a few gnarly rope fall/catches but more interestingly Bond at the end of his SRT line uses his boot lace to make a prussic footloop to one leg it back up the line hand advancing the prussic. I guess he didn't have his jumar with him. Film was from 60's or 70's. What's new is old. I think the bootlace footloop prussic should be mythbusted With proper cordage would guaranteed work.

 

[Muggs]

Sorry for the derail, but I remember on Tim Ferriss's TV show he showed replacing your shoe laces with paracord because it could be very useful in certain situations, one of which he showed was using them to get out of ziptie handcuffs. I'm now adding footloop prusik to that list.

 

[oldoakman]

In a classroom learning to tie knots. When I start to teach someone to climb, the first thing I teach is knots, About 12-15 of them. homework is to tie, dress and set each one 100 times in a row. Most students never do the homework. The City I work for requires testing before one can start a tree care company and obtain their business license. There is a field demonstration portion that includes 6 basic knots. I am constantly amazed at how many "Tree guys" cannot tie knots properly or efficiently.

 

[ATH]

In a classroom learning to tie knots. When I start to teach someone to climb, the first thing I teach is knots, About 12-15 of them. homework is to tie, dress and set each one 100 times in a row. Most students never do the homework. The City I work for requires testing before one can start a tree care company and obtain their business license. There is a field demonstration portion that includes 6 basic knots. I am constantly amazed at how many "Tree guys" cannot tie knots properly or efficiently.

What if they just want to do treatments, consulting, and planting. Do they still need to know the knots?

I think that's good for anybody wanting to do overhead work. A pretty base level of competency.

Since you bring it up, I don't know that I have taught the few people I've helped start climbing more than 4-5 knots... Figure 8 (do you count on a bite as a separate knot?), clove hitch, a friction hitch or two, I guess an overhand and slip knot technically count. That's about all I ever use on the job. Learned a whole bunch in Boy Scouts back in the day, but trying to think through what else I use on the job...

 

[Bart_]

Decades ago before I was ever involved in arboriculture I heard a "test" which was to go up 70' lanyard in and untie your life support figure 8 (probably also with with a Blakes?) , re-tie it self-sufficiently, correctly and not die getting back down. I suspect no biner to the bridge/D. Rain or shine. I was probably 10 or 12 years old. Someone's older sibling relayed this.

This was at some college. Times were different.

In contrast I had my son up with me SRT RW long before puberty hit. Even made him a small Haas.