Whats a Work Comp company that will deal with a small tree service?

[Woodman]

My work comp company just dropped me. I've had them for two years, no claims. They tell me they don't want the exposure of insuring small tree services anymore. My payroll is around 100K/year, I operate in PA. Other work comp companies are telling me the same thing. Does anyone use a company that you could refer me to? Many thanks

 

[Tom Dunlap]

In MN there is a state pool of companies that provide workers comp at a structured rate. They have to insure.

For a long while I payrolled my employees through a daily labor company. I was charged a percentage of payroll and the company billed me every two weeks. The %age that I paid included all payroll taxes and comp. I supervised and hired/fired the workers.

The markup was only a little more than the state rate for tree care workers. The daily labor company was able to list my workers as general labor so the rate was CHEAP.

 

[Reach]

We use Amerisafe, and we are in PA as well; I think their service is quite good and we have had no issues even after one non-claim that was paid out the other year. I’m sure you can find an agent in your area that works with them, as they’re a rather large specialty insurer.

 

[Gorman]

You may be limited to one or two companies if you have a low payroll. A lot of lower rate companies will only deal with you if you have a annual payroll of 250 tp 500k

 

[Reach]

You may be limited to one or two companies if you have a low payroll. A lot of lower rate companies will only deal with you if you have a annual payroll of 250 tp 500k

That could be, Amerisafe should not be that way though, we had less than $50k total annual payroll when we first signed with them. We do have 10+ years of near perfect safety records to help, but our rates are excellent for a tree service, at least in my opinion. We pay about 25% of what we would pay if we were on the state insurance.

 

[Woodman]

That could be, Amerisafe should not be that way though, we had less than $50k total annual payroll when we first signed with them. We do have 10+ years of near perfect safety records to help, but our rates are excellent for a tree service, at least in my opinion. We pay about 25% of what we would pay if we were on the state insurance.

Can I ask what your rate with Amerisafe is?

 

[Reach]

Can I ask what your rate with Amerisafe is?

I do not remember exactly, but it’s around $10.50 per $100 in payroll.

 

[Woodman]

Wow, thats great.

 

[evo]

Daum, we have to pay $4.50 per hour per employee (plus minus a hair)… we don’t have a private option just state…

 

[Reach]

Daum, we have to pay $4.50 per hour per employee (plus minus a hair)… we don’t have a private option just state…

That’s terrible! Our state fund rates are up around $45 per $100 of payroll, you’re stuck with those rates if you have a poor safety rating or if you are new; the private insurers don’t want to insure high risk companies.

 

[OasisTree]

Shop around at several insurance brokers, there are options. Here in MO it is a state run program as well, but the rates are very competitive.

 

[CHTjules]

We are a small company in south central PA. For years we were with SWIF. Eventually I tried Amerisafe for a year thinking it would be a good option to get away from SWIF, but it was so expensive and the down deposit was something like $7,000 and they didn't even apply that to the premium throughout the year, they just held that money and then it took forever for them to return it after we switched to another company (even though I made every payment on time, had no claims, etc.). BCF Insurance out of Lancaster is our broker/agent, and we currently have our WC policy with a company called Encova - it is VERY affordable (our MOD is something like 0.8). Looks like BCF does work "across PA" so it may be worth contacting them: https://bcfgroup.net/ - Bret Hart is our agent and wonderful to work with. Good luck!

 

[CHTjules]

I just pulled up our current policy. Our payroll is $100,000, our rate per $100 is 12.32, and our Experience Mod is 0.857.

 

[southsoundtree]

That’s terrible! Our state fund rates are up around $45 per $100 of payroll, you’re stuck with those rates if you have a poor safety rating or if you are new; the private insurers don’t want to insure high risk companies.

If paying $25/ hour, our comp is about $16-18/$100.

 

[evo]

If paying $25/ hour, our comp is about $16-18/$100.

The one thing I do appreciate is our rate is per hour, and not a percentage of payroll. The whole % thing always has pissed me off as it’s incentive to keep wages down

 

[kludge]

We have been working with the PA state pool as we have not been able to get a private insurer for workers comp with our smaller payroll. They are expensive at about $25/$100 of payroll for tree work. But they will certainly insure you.

 

[Woodman]

We are a small company in south central PA. For years we were with SWIF. Eventually I tried Amerisafe for a year thinking it would be a good option to get away from SWIF, but it was so expensive and the down deposit was something like $7,000 and they didn't even apply that to the premium throughout the year, they just held that money and then it took forever for them to return it after we switched to another company (even though I made every payment on time, had no claims, etc.). BCF Insurance out of Lancaster is our broker/agent, and we currently have our WC policy with a company called Encova - it is VERY affordable (our MOD is something like 0.8). Looks like BCF does work "across PA" so it may be worth contacting them: https://bcfgroup.net/ - Bret Hart is our agent and wonderful to work with. Good luck!

I just pulled up our current policy. Our payroll is $100,000, our rate per $100 is 12.32, and our Experience Mod is 0.857.

Interesting. Encova is the company that just dropped me. I looked it up and my payroll is actually only 65K for the tree trimming category, the rest is for my secretary and mechanic. But I've been with them for two years and had no claims, made every payment. I'm surprised they kept you on.

 

[CHTjules]

Interesting. Encova is the company that just dropped me. I looked it up and my payroll is actually only 65K for the tree trimming category, the rest is for my secretary and mechanic. But I've been with them for two years and had no claims, made every payment. I'm surprised they kept you on.

Was it randomly during your coverage year that they dropped you, or at your renewal? My policy renewal will be in March, so who knows what they will say then? [emoji2372]. Our entire $100,000 payroll is in the tree trimming category.

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[Woodman]

Was it randomly during your coverage year that they dropped you, or at your renewal? My policy renewal will be in March, so who knows what they will say then? [emoji2372]. Our entire $100,000 payroll is in the tree trimming category.

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It was at the policy renewal.

 

[CHTjules]

So, here's an update @Woodman - we were indeed dropped by Encova at our renewal (same reason...they are no longer willing to take on the risk of small tree care companies). We ended up going back to AmeriSafe, but things are way different this time (for whatever reason from 4 years ago...we had the same safety person come to do our pre-policy visit and he seems to think it all depends on whatever underwriter who happens to take it up). Our deposit was relatively minimal this time around, and our rate is $10.09 per $100/payroll ($100,000 payroll - 2 employees...but I think the rate is typically based on your MOD, and ours is somewhere around 0.8).