VT Hitch transforming

B

Bart_

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
GTA
Since way back when I tie a VT it starts out perhaps 3 or 4 coils and about 1 or 2 braids, but after loading it and climbing a bit of the coils always disappears into more braids. Ok, no biggie.

But today a VT long settled into 2 1/2 coils and about 2 braids started oozing me down the line slowly, so I look and it has transformed into 1 or 1 1/2 coils which I surmised was the reason. Now one additional factor, this was on a section of rope where it transitions from heavily used to less used, or it was caused by heavy pine sap cleaning I'm not sure, and the rope diameter has a tiny drop back to smaller/original diameter. I've gone over this section many times previously. I was just coming out of the tree to mid-way inspect the shaping prune from the ground, so I changed hitch cord before going back up as it looked a bit too worn. The cord was ice tail on tachyon with a wrench.

Anyone else have VT knot transformation, or ever to this extreme amount? thanks
 
I go back to VT from time to time with all different hitch cords and lengths and combos of braids and wraps,it just doesn’t work for me srt. I know some people have good success with it though.I wish i could make it work because its so fast and easy to tie but i cant get it to grab consistently on 11 mm ropes whitch is what i mostly use.Thicker more textured rope or ddrt it’s great for me.IDK ! Michoacan is very reliable for me and if it creeps then take a leg off and twist it
and problem solved!
 
Bart_ said:
Since way back when I tie a VT it starts out perhaps 3 or 4 coils and about 1 or 2 braids, but after loading it and climbing a bit of the coils always disappears into more braids. Ok, no biggie.

But today a VT long settled into 2 1/2 coils and about 2 braids started oozing me down the line slowly, so I look and it has transformed into 1 or 1 1/2 coils which I surmised was the reason. Now one additional factor, this was on a section of rope where it transitions from heavily used to less used, or it was caused by heavy pine sap cleaning I'm not sure, and the rope diameter has a tiny drop back to smaller/original diameter. I've gone over this section many times previously. I was just coming out of the tree to mid-way inspect the shaping prune from the ground, so I changed hitch cord before going back up as it looked a bit too worn. The cord was ice tail on tachyon with a wrench.

Anyone else have VT knot transformation, or ever to this extreme amount? thanks
Click to expand...

I find that i will have stupid issues like this if i do not tie it correctly. As in, unequal tension, braids not alternated & lastly but most obvious to me is, if i do not finish with a braid on the same side of the rope as the biner, it will get fubared quickly.. your think that last part wouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does.
 
Doesn't the tension equalize the first time you load your hitch? This a very compact, supple 26" cord quite unlike traditional stuff like the different beelines I've used. I notice that the very well worn cord seemed more supple than normal, even to the point of having more torsional give than seemed right. Might partly explain rolling out. The wear set off nervous red flags of get new cord, don't find out the hard way its on its way out. I've never paid attention to braids except to see the rope enter the hitch climber funnily sometimes which makes me re-tie it. I think this one was same leg always outside as I actually looked at it. I've used the same cord and VT for a bunch of years. Using the hitch climber pulley the rope doesn't run up against the carabiner it just enters the pulley with the last braid inner or outer to the guideway. So should I regard the pulley or the housing as being the carabiner contact on the finish braid? thanks
 
I meant to come back & edit my last post but forgot.. in the part where i was explaining what side of the rope to keep the last braid on, i meant to say keep it under, not ontop.

No, the legs don't just equalize automatically. Yeah, visually things may stretch out & look equal after finishing uneven, but that tension/load is not equal, hence one of the reasons it might get all fubared & start cascading wraps down on you.. When you finish, your legs should be equal lengths, basically somewhat semetrical on all accounts. I will say however, I'm not the official VT guru, nor am I a big fan of them, I'm just echoing advice that's been passed down & seemed to have worked very consistent for me before i moved onto hitches i like better. I will also add, that everytime i see pics of VT's that look disaterous, 95% of the time, it's because they are not tied correctly or that last braid is not snugged against the rope before getting binered... basically it's a matter of having the hitch facing the wrong way, or adding or subtracting the last wrap. Idk if that's the consensus or if everyone notices that, but it's what i picked up on.

There's also a hitch called the XT which may or may not be useful for you to try if your hung up on using this type of hitch.
 
The VT is not a good hitch. You might get a good climb on it. The next day it will misbehave. Is it the weather? What other piece of gear do you allow to perform as expected only a fraction of the time? Tie something else.
 
rope-a-dope said:
The VT is not a good hitch. You might get a good climb on it. The next day it will misbehave. Is it the weather? What other piece of gear do you allow to perform as expected only a fraction of the time? Tie something else.
Click to expand...
Very much disagree. Respectfully. It is not for everyone and there is no perfect hitch for everyone. I agree it is generally not the best for SRT due to overal length, smooth and responsive (for some) but other hitches are more compact. Perfect for ddrt imo.
 
The VT is a difficult hitch to get right with a preset length cord that is sewn or spliced, with the inflexibility near the eye not helping.
The transforming is from the legs being too long. Adding a wrap or braid, or twisting of the eyes before clipping can maybe help, as others have stated. Also make sure both legs are loaded.
Some hitches and cord combos can adapt to rope diameter change and not slip, others can’t.
Putting an x on the second braid of a 4 2 VT and adding a ring is the Sticht Hitch, which works on SRT.
 
I fiddled quite a bit in early days with cords, length and coils/braids and ended up on 26" ice tail after using some 28's and 30's. It grabbed and released reliably and was very compact under the wrench. So I stuck with it. I tend to use it all up in the knot, but not too many knot features as it gets real tight too quick and doesn't release. Sewn eyes use up about the clearance getting past the hitch climber pulley so I don't have the stiff splice region problem.

I run a black 8mm bee line probably 28" cord VT on a lanyard and it's not as compact and exhibits typical VT behaviour, sometimes needing setting to grab and reminding you what sit back is. Quite different behaviour. Maybe I need to give it a twist. The black bee line is more supple than the gold and black stuff.
 
Wrangler said:
I go back to VT from time to time with all different hitch cords and lengths and combos of braids and wraps,it just doesn’t work for me srt. I know some people have good success with it though.I wish i could make it work because its so fast and easy to tie but i cant get it to grab consistently on 11 mm ropes whitch is what i mostly use.Thicker more textured rope or ddrt it’s great for me.IDK ! Michoacan is very reliable for me and if it creeps then take a leg off and twist it
and problem solved!
Click to expand...

What he said! I was a VT man forever til I found the Michoacán. I’ll never use another hitch.
 
What cord is that Brocky? Do you think that rig could accommodate an Oceans style tether and small throw-line tending loop on the same biner? Also would the knot somewhat preclude the other hitch climber holes?

more auto spell fixing... can that be turned off?!
 
It’s 8mm Bailout, it’s a little crowded but works on an oval carabiner, I put the tending cord in the tether, though.
01B0D451-0B31-4B03-A297-3F2383C8926E.webp
The Hitch Climber is a good option if you have one, but there are simpler alternatives if you don’t.76E9BC45-5A3A-45A8-A674-9EFE921AD35B.webp
 
I broke my plastic tending biner about a week back (weak link safety purpose) under some binding, my tending loop has nearly worn out and today my haas bungee snapped on my last ascent. I'm stealing your tending loop method and doing some gear maintenance I guess. The bungee went quite a few years. As rubber and nylon both degrade with time I guess fresh stock is in order.

Looked up bail out. Who'da thunk ice tail and bailout are both Samson. And figure this: bailout looks kevlar and surprise it's 100% kevlar but 4200 lb tensile while ice tail looks 100% kevlar but is a 80/20 blend with polyester but get this 8500 lb tensile. Something don't seem right. Maybe I should burn an old hitch and see if there's any melt or all charring. Yeah, kevlar technora, spectra dyneema etc. I know.

Is bailout as stiff as ocean polyester?
 
Brocky said:
It’s 8mm Bailout, it’s a little crowded but works on an oval carabiner, I put the tending cord in the tether, though.
View attachment 63126
The Hitch Climber is a good option if you have one, but there are simpler alternatives if you don’t.View attachment 63127
Click to expand...
I'm trying this style of termination with a CE/Pinto lanyard right now.. it's either having the hitch cordage like this.... or the fact that i cut the eye off the other end to milk the enourmous amount of cover slack out, that is making a whole world if difference... Instant.. instant.. hitch reaction, no binding.. Just totally different. The 230 dollar Lanyard is actually functioning like it should now..
 
Bart_ said:
I broke my plastic tending biner about a week back (weak link safety purpose) under some binding, my tending loop has nearly worn out and today my haas bungee snapped on my last ascent. I'm stealing your tending loop method and doing some gear maintenance I guess. The bungee went quite a few years. As rubber and nylon both degrade with time I guess fresh stock is in order.

Looked up bail out. Who'da thunk ice tail and bailout are both Samson. And figure this: bailout looks kevlar and surprise it's 100% kevlar but 4200 lb tensile while ice tail looks 100% kevlar but is a 80/20 blend with polyester but get this 8500 lb tensile. Something don't seem right. Maybe I should burn an old hitch and see if there's any melt or all charring. Yeah, kevlar technora, spectra dyneema etc. I know.

Is bailout as stiff as ocean polyester?
Click to expand...

The difference in strength is more due to the type of construction of the cord, than the materials, polyester is weaker than technora. I guess the longer the braids the stronger it is, due to fewer and not as sharp of bends. The Bailout is a double braid, while Icetail is a single braid, also.
552321D2-6364-41CA-991B-B832DA74792E.jpeg552321D2-6364-41CA-991B-B832DA74792E.webp
 
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