using a 24 strand for both single and double technique

Ropenwalking is definitely easier than using your arms, as mentioned. But that is not an debate about moving or stationary ropes, that's about form. Rope walking in ddrt is easier on your body than srt. Facts. It's been researched. But we all know it takes longer. A long ascent is definitely better for the stamina and much faster done on a stationary rope, so for that task, it's easier on the person going up. If I'm pruning I can get to where i want to easier in srt, but it's harder on my hands and shoulders tending slack 1:1.
 
There are ways to turn your 1:1 stationary rope into a 3:1 when needed so there's definitely options. This is something I love about stationary rope is that I feel like I have more options, though I've seen more and more creative moving rope redirects and ways to stay on rope when passing unions. But if im doing a removal where I won't be using more than 1 redirect to get where I gotta go I do them all on a moving rope system
 
I'm curious just how much impact you're thinking is involved in srt compared to other activities, I step up pretty even not really any actual impact less so than walking up or down stairs or jogging.
 
"First off the opinion that ddrt systems are based on your upper body is just that an opinion."
"is how someone said it at a talk i heard by someone who had done a study on this very thing."
"Rope walking in ddrt is easier on your body than srt. Fact. It's been researched."

@CutHighnLetFly. Hmm...strange, I have never met a climber that did not understand that DdRT was specifically designed to facilitate using your hands and arms.

I have no idea where you have been getting your information and, quite frankly, I don't care. For the first 39 years of my climbing career I used DdRT systems. I know how they work and what they can do. For these last 14 or so years I have been climbing exclusively with SRT systems. It did take me a while to become proficient and fine tune this new stationary rope climbing technique, but I did. There is no way in hell I would still be climbing if I had not done so. The energy expenditure is vastly reduced while setup, and in 'my opinion' safety, is increased.
 
DSMc said:
"First off the opinion that ddrt systems are based on your upper body is just that an opinion."
"is how someone said it at a talk i heard by someone who had done a study on this very thing."
"Rope walking in ddrt is easier on your body than srt. Fact. It's been researched."

@CutHighnLetFly. Hmm...strange, I have never met a climber that did not understand that DdRT was specifically designed to facilitate using your hands and arms.

I have no idea where you have been getting your information and, quite frankly, I don't care. For the first 39 years of my climbing career I used DdRT systems. I know how they work and what they can do. For these last 14 or so years I have been climbing exclusively with SRT systems. It did take me a while to become proficient and fine tune this new stationary rope climbing technique, but I did. There is no way in hell I would still be climbing if I had not done so. The energy expenditure is vastly reduced while setup, and in 'my opinion' safety, is increased.
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I got my info from a talk done at tcia by Phil Kelly. Sorry I can't site the link for the research. Am I mistaken that foot ascenders and knee ascenders are allowed to be used for ddrt or is that something you're not supposed to do because it's ddrt? I don't care you've been doing it for 39 years, maybe you should have used more legs on your ddrt system all those years? I was using soley stationary ropes for I think 6 years before I realized how dumb I was being, not utilizing moving rope systems more. But maybe youre right and I'm just an idiot for listening to industry leaders at the most recent industry association lectures. Always love when people drop they're "I've been doing this for x amount of years so obviously I'm correct" argument.
 
And I appreciate and respect you opinion. I don't doubt is based on years of you're own personal experience. I've been on the buzz for 12 years and always read what you have to say. Don't always agree but i definitely don't discredit your words.
 
Vicente said:
I'm curious just how much impact you're thinking is involved in srt compared to other activities, I step up pretty even not really any actual impact less so than walking up or down stairs or jogging.
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I'm not sure. I've never watch a talk about someone's research comparing rope walking and slack tending ddrt vs srt vs jogging. Only ones comparing the climbing techniques. And the information was pretty neat. Same was the way they did the studies
 
Tell me what's easier on your hands and elbows while keeping your rope under tension while returning from a limb walking; a moving rope system (2:1) or a stationary rope system (1:1)?
 
CutHighnLetFly said:
Tell me what's easier on your hands and elbows while keeping your rope under tension while returning from a limb walking; a moving rope system (2:1) or a stationary rope system (1:1)?
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I don't notice any difference, often times the extra friction of drt will make it harder if anything, srt I just adjust my balance so I'm not really lifting anything while tending slack.
 
CutHighnLetFly said:
But if keeping the rope under tension is key to keep weight off the limb......
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I use a 3:1 haul-back in that situation, but it is not very often really needed.

Using knee and foot ascenders on a DdRT 2:1 system is like pedaling a bike on the flat while in the lowest gear. It sucks! Especially if you know a better way.

My mentioning how long I have been working was not to impress you with my knowledge but instead to state how old and weak I currently am and that I would not be using SRT if it wasn't easier.
 
DSMc said:
I use a 3:1 haul-back in that situation, but it is not very often really needed.

Using knee and foot ascenders on a DdRT 2:1 system is like pedaling a bike on the flat while in the lowest gear. It sucks! Especially if you know a better way.

My mentioning how long I have been working was not to impress you with my knowledge but instead to state how old and weak I currently am and that I would not be using SRT if it wasn't easier.
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And just like a bike, that lower gear may not be as fast, but what does it make it for your body?
 
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I definitely feel sorer climbing SRT vs MRS. At least my joints are. Maybe because I'm using a less elastic rope. SRT to me is like running on pavement; MRS is like jogging on a trail. Running on the pavement will get me there faster and with less effort, but will be more painful.
 
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CutHighnLetFly said:
And just like a bike, that lower gear may not be as fast, but what does it make it for your body?
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Have you ridden a bike when it is in too low a gear? Why would anyone do that on purpose and what would be the point of having all those higher gears?

Efficiency is getting the most out of an energy expenditure not the absence of effort.
 
Tuebor said:
I definitely feel sorer climbing SRT vs MRS. At least my joints are. Maybe because I'm using a less elastic rope. SRT to me is like running on pavement; MRS is like jogging on a trail.
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Climbers do tend to 'bang' up the rope when using SRT which is one of the main points that started this off topic discussion. Many also fail to use the many cross configurations available for short movements and just muscle through it.

Using a tool in a manner that defeats its purpose does not make it a bad tool.
 
I love SRT. Am very efficient with it, the redirect is king to me with consistent friction. I ABHOR fighting friction. The 1:1 slack tending is also a plus, oddly different that DdRT I agree as I reach up hold my weight and balance while tending slack. But after 10 years plus it comes so natural. DdRT slack tending is quite different, a lot of quick movement while weighted in the rope. Once you have trees that have high TIPs and give great pendulum angles and not too spreading that a couple redirects are needed to get necessary work achieved then DdRT works well. That goes through the door when working trees here that I can use up to 6 to 8 redirects. For me I just cannot go back, I have tried and the results for me were poor. Trees here tend to be far wider than tall. and quite oddly shaped like the Casaurina. Mahogany is like live oak and favor SRT. I hardly feel sore at the end of a long day climbing SRT, but when I climbed DdRT the constant moving TIP and fighting to maintain proper friction was taxing, and I was younger. Both are very good tools and have their place. Use what works for you and enjoy the climb. Honestly I have seen some awesome DdRT climbs at comps where the competitor was very efficient in their movements, but no redirects were needed. In real world work environs I find that not the case, but I do not climb the same types of trees that most on here do. Hope this brings some different light to the discussion. We must remember we all have different physiology and athletic ability which will decide what systems we might chose to achieve our goals at work or play.
 
All true as spoken, Paul.

I would like to add that an SRT system's ability to quickly and efficiently be redirected is also beneficial in excurrent trees as well as wide spreading decurrent trees. I will often work the outside canopy of a large Ponderosa pine by setting progressive redirects outward from the top down. Getting me out on the tips with an overhead work line works a treat.

For clarification, I am 100% against pressuring individuals into using SRT systems. They have every right to do what works for them. That is not the same as pointing out a tool's potential. I have seen people so skilled in the use of an ax that it has virtually become an art form. Efficiency at every stroke. That however, does not make me want to give up chainsaw use.
 
The only points I'm arguing that were previously said, because i think it's important to clarify, is that it's nonsense that srt is safer in that someone is less likely to blow out a tie in point and that it isn't in fact better for your body.
I'm in full agreement that it takes less effort to go up and down and it offers a wider variety of redirects types.
Ddrt can be worked as efficiently and quickly and one can get to wherever they want in a tree safely as much as srt. If you don't believe it you need to spend more time around creative ddrt climbers. It's all personal preference so don't go writing off certain techniques just because most people buy into the idea tool is better than another.
Hammer for a nail, screw driver for a screw sort of thing
 
I absolutely hate rope walking ddrt. The reason I go ddrt is working off a crane hook or a couple other rare circumstances. I love what can be done with systematic anchorages in tree climbing for pure usefulness in the vast array of many situations trees present. Safety, speed, ease of use make my choices for ME
 
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