Two cedar trees in SE Mass being "bugged", how serious is it (pics included)

[DruidCarol]

I noticed two red cedars (coastal Massachusetts) that are hosting a couple of varmints. I know that the trees in question are too close together for starters. They are on the park-style property of a church in Fairhaven, MA so I was hoping to get some advice to pass along to the church about options for them to deal with this...or not if you don't think it's critical.

Larger tree has ants, probably field ants since they aren't as big as 'carpies' that have been building a good sized nest. I took a couple of snaps of the canopy which is looking pretty sad though it could be more because of competing with the smaller tree.

When I walked around to the smaller tree to see if it was a discreet second tree and not just a second leader on the first, I noticed the brown beetle with its abdomen clearly being used to inject (most likely) eggs in the bark. I'm not great with bugs and couldn't really find anything that looked like this via Google search. Again, if anyone can suggest how serious this bug is to the health of the second tree--it's canopy is in better shape and it seems to otherwise be pretty healthy (this was the only critter I could spot anywhere on the lower 15' of trunk) so maybe the first tree can be taken down to give the smaller tree a better life?

Again, this is just to know what to tell the church authorities since they will need handle any potential risk if it is serious enough. Thanks!

 

[Treezybreez]

That is a Cicada nymph shed. They are harmless to the tree. The frass is probably coming from some kind of boring beetle which could damage the tree.

 

[DruidCarol]

Thanks @Treezybreez , I take it the cicada is the second tree "hitchhiker". Bad news for it, there has been nesting cicada killers about 50-70 feet away.

So the ants are not the original excavators of the hole in the first tree? Just opportunistic at finding a cavity to get inside?

 

[Treezybreez]

Thanks @Treezybreez , I take it the cicada is the second tree "hitchhiker". Bad news for it, there has been nesting cicada killers about 50-70 feet away.

So the ants are not the original excavators of the hole in the first tree? Just opportunistic at finding a cavity to get inside?

When you mentioned the ants making a nest, I did not realize that there was a hollow. In that case the frass is probably coming from the ants excavation efforts of the hollow and probably wont damage the tree. Even if the ants are carpenter ants, they are more interested in eating fungi growing in the tree and having shelter than they are about eating the wood.

 

[DruidCarol]

Yeah, there's a small round hole in the trunk that has the ants coming and going like a frat party. I did couple the tree base photo with that with the dead wood in the canopy since I'm not the expert like you are (all of you on this forum). Even if the ants aren't doing serious damage, it doesn't look as healthy as the other tree next to it (even the squirrels agree since they built their nest in the smaller tree's canopy!) I might suggest the church be prepared, nevertheless, to let the 'ant' tree go and give the other cedar more room.

 

[Treezybreez]

It is very common to find mature Eastern Redcedars that are at least partially hollow and contain carpenter ants. There is still some debate as to whether or not carpenter ants are harmful in any way to live trees. Eastern Redcedars are pretty hardy trees so, I doubt that the tree is going to die any time soon. It would certainly look a lot better with out all that dead wood though.

 

[DruidCarol]

I learned that the church who owns the property actually uses the lawn care services of one of the longtime better arborists around these parts so probably won't hurt to have him take a look at 'ant tree' (for want of a better name) when his crew is around next time, just for giggles.

There is a debate about the state wanting to take down a large tree along a route where they have jurisdiction and the local tree warden (who is elected and is a chiropractor, for pity's sake) claims its because of carpenter ants which is why I am aware that there is still some debate whether ants are really a problem.

Thanks for the conversation! Others are welcome to still chime in.

 

[guymayor]

Carol, can you post more details about the highway tree? The ant debate was resolved 30 years ago; no harm.

 

[DruidCarol]

Carol, can you post more details about the highway tree? The ant debate was resolved 30 years ago; no harm.

Hi @guymayor , I don't really know a whole lot. A member of a group of concerned residents confronted the town DPW and the Tree Warden and was told the state had marked it for removal due to a large branch overhanging the road and then the town Tree Warden (the chiropractor, remember) chimed in about it was full of carpenter ants. The person posted on a Facebook page set up for local villagers to talk about town issues and here's the verbatim quote:

For anyone interested in the fate of the tree marked for removal on the edge of the Civil War Park (corner of Huttleston/ Route 6 and Main), we spoke with the BPW and the tree warden. The State marked it for removal because the branch hanging over the road is dangerous. But Dr. Bowcock says it is also full of carpenter ants. It is to be replaced by a linden tree.

Another person piped up about carpenter ants are not a problem (as you say) and also went on to say the she didn't understand why the branch overhanging couldn't just be removed and the tree treated for any other pests. I can probably go have a look at it tomorrow. Not sure what species it is, could be Norway Maple. The state highway division has a setback area for intersections that is a bit more aggressive than just numbered highways involved--I spoke to the DOT a few years ago to learn what roads and streets in town were designated state roads. Local jurisdictions have little say on the matter and no public hearing is required. But there is a building tension between residents and the town about the number of trees slated to be cut down because the DPW wants to pave it all over with a vengeance.

Enclosed is a picture of Green Street, to show what the town essentially looks like in the historic center. The battle is about having the ability to have a ton of cars running around in town or keep the trees.

 

[guymayor]

Carol your story is very similar to the attached. Is there anyone in town who can just prune the neglected branch?

 

[DruidCarol]

Guy, it is always possible to have someone do proper pruning if the town officials (in this case, it is suggested the state of Massachusetts has jurisdiction) are of the mindset to save the tree if it is otherwise in good condition. Despite Massachusetts' longtime and very robust public shade tree laws, this inclination is harder and harder to find--everything comes down to the almighty dollar and political will. When a certified arborist came to report on the town center trees that were slated for removal in order to re-grade the street that is depicted in my picture above, he looked at it from the standpoint of the project going through and essentially said they might as well take nearly every tree you can see in the first 2 blocks of that photo. The road work plan has changed because traffic is too hectic on this street now, and with a slight narrowing, they are going to only take 4-6 trees, not 18-21. But we know in their heart of hearts, the town officials would like to do the opposite of the revised plan--it's "just easier", screw the taxpayers, they're just a bunch of complainers.

I will be going over to look at the said tree in question shortly. I love your report--that is what I would like the town to do for long term planning because many older trees are going to be necessary to "retire" and "replace". But we could buy some time for the utility butchered trees with some bracing and cabling, I think (just an amateur opinion), so we don't end up looking like a brown and concrete wasteland.

 

[colb]

With two trees next to each other, one will always look better than the other. I think you're on the right track to have the local arb look at it.

 

[guymayor]

Why do older trees need retiring? The problem is, they will not be replaced. And re budget, pruning is cheaper than removing.

 

[DruidCarol]

Carol, can you post more details about the highway tree? The ant debate was resolved 30 years ago; no harm.

Guy,

The "highway tree" is a Tilia platyphyllos, one of two. It's definitely one that falls under the state's care. I think it is in worse shape than people realize and enclose some snaps of it that shows the condition. the overhanging branch just barely arcs over the right of way though a large truck could probably whack it if hugging the curb. This roadside park has another large leaf linden next to this one, a sad looking locust tree, a Norway maple or two, and then a really nice Tilia chordata just around the corner from these--it looks pretty fine but could do with a skilled prune before the utility companies come along with murder on their minds.

I'm not an arborist, but my amateur guess is the tagged tree should come down due to the structure looking very off-balance, the large crack, and other bark irregularities not present on the other Tilia platyphyllos.

Carol

 

[DruidCarol]

Why do older trees need retiring? The problem is, they will not be replaced. And re budget, pruning is cheaper than removing.

Retire was probably not the best word to use.

I had a quick look at your website and find it very informative. I will likely use it for reference when helping my Fairhaven friends. Just realized you're down by Cary NC; my sister is in Chapel Hill and my mom just moved down to Durham a couple of years ago to live at Croasdaile Farm. We looked at another senior community in Cary that was gorgeous but I think it was a bit out of mom's price range--I think Cary and Chapel Hill are two of the prettiest places in America. I'm the holdout up in the north, apart from my nephew in Michigan. Everyone else is in the Triangle, and my brother and one niece are in Georgia. I wilt in weather over 70 deg.

 

[guymayor]

Retired, cut down, what ever the wording, it's a lot cheaper to prune them.

Carol, those features say one thing but other features point to the trees' strength. A competent assessment is not Defects + Targets = Removal, even tho that's often done. Carpenter ants are almost expected in trees that old--to cite them as a key factor is nuts.

Yeah NC is hot; i find work elsewhere in the summer. I've worked near Croasdale; there's a mammoth willow oak on a golf course near there.

Cary and Chapel Hill will look like Cleveland soon enough, at the rate they are going!

 

[DruidCarol]

That's very interesting, Guy--I have said to the folks here that to take down the old trees just to put up new ones and start the whole process of neglect all over again is insane, a waste of money, and killing the town character. I had looked at the planting instructions for the new street plans and a) they seldom follow them, and b) I notice they expect the new trees to grow in limited soil that is usually factored as one part loam, one part fresh topsoil and one part organic. My mind says that they are using a soft planting medium that will compact pretty quickly, mulch is never used. Invariably they cover the root flare and plant grass over it.

I am not sure why else the state wants that tree to go IF it's not in grave condition; it's bit chewed up by either gypsy moth (heavy this year) or winter moth (same again). We're paying the price for not having an arborist for a tree warden here, and too many engineers.

My sister and her husband hide off the coast of Maine each summer, and my sister complains that all us "damn yankees" are moving down there and changing the character from what she knew 40+ years ago when she first went there for graduate school. My mom's 91 and we had to get her out of the snows of Michigan where she was newly widowed and all by herself--she enjoys the 'girls' she's gotten to know at Croasdaile and added bonus of seeing her great grandchildren.