Tree Wreckers Royal Certification

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pctree

Branched out member
Ok so I have a quandary. I hate establishments / authority. On Steven and my recent trip driving about 8 hours together we talked about a lot of shit and I brought up the fact that I really don't think it's a good idea to do exactly what I have done and buy a crane and go do tree work with it. I have always focused on large removals as I love wrecking big trees and have been trying to hone our operation to be as efficient as possible. In this journey I realized the value of a good crane and operator so have had 2 very long and profitable relationships with crane companies (I relocated my business 15 or so years ago) .I consider myself to have above average comprehension of the physics involved in our arena so felt confident trying to become an operator myself. In hindsight I don't believe I would do it again, we were lucky and never had an accident but when crane work does go bad I'm sure it's real BAD.

I have since got training down in FL from Crane tech, 4 day course. I just took the practical test so need to sit the computer test which I have already studied for, so in the foreseeable future I will be a NCCCO certified operator. Problem is I feel non of this training has made me even a shred safer on a tree removal site! Seriously they don't even touch on anything relevant. I really wanted to learn correct setup techniques on uneven ground, say half on half off a curb on a grade. I was told to never set up on anything with a slope of greater than 10 degrees. I told them that would preclude me from 70% of my job's.

Anyways getting off on the wrong tangent. The point is NCCCO doesn't help a newbie become safe. I know about crane man classes which Robby my climber has been to but for me it's hard to commit to a date way in advance as I'm too busy. I have always encouraged folks to come work with us whenever works into their schedule. I am always honest with folks about the risks of tasks we are engaged in and never put them in situations they are not comfortable with. I know Yoo's went down with is kboom and helped Steve (how much is that worth!) David Driver used to host folks too..

As I say I have no real fast idea of how to address this but think for our industry we need to have a better solution. Shit imagine what will happen to our insurance rates if idiots start flipping cranes every week. How about an online list of folks willing to host folks or maybe even travel to somebody's area and do jobs with them . In my mind an informal group would be preferable so the "redder" of us feel comfortable.

Bottom line is people about to pull the trigger on buying a crane are going to be pretty busy people but need imo on the job training. Somehow we have to come up with a way to do this a without giving folks the impression we are trying to extort them hence my push for an informal venue.

The main reason we should want to do this is because it's right.
 
Good post Paul, all of what you say is so true, before I bought my crane this year I spent time with my friends crane company who I’ve been using the last 15 or so years doing tree removals, they let me run the cranes, and gave me setup tips, and other little tips etc. Can’t learn that in a book or online , it’s something that has to be physically done. You can get yourself in a boat load of trouble if you don’t know what the hell your doing that’s for sure. I’d gladly welcome someone as well thinking about buying a crane to come out with us and learn hands on. It’s something we should be doing to help out the arborist community. My only complaint about owning a crane now is I’m getting fat and don’t get to climb much anymore ! I’m on the Jenny Craig diet right now, had to cut down on donuts. Oh yeah how was Steve’s snoring on the way there ? Lol
 
I hear you on the getting fat. I really have had to make an effort with my diet and exercise , something I have never before in my life had to worry about.

It was awesome that you were able to get hands on experience before embarking on your ownership. How much time did you spend learning from your crane co ?

How would you think we should promote this grass roots effort?

As I said I have no idea how to achieve this other than starting a dialogue
 
pctree said:
I hear you on the getting fat. I really have had to make an effort with my diet and exercise , something I have never before in my life had to worry about.

It was awesome that you were able to get hands on experience before embarking on your ownership. How much time did you spend learning from your crane co ?

How would you think we should promote this grass roots effort?

As I said I have no idea how to achieve this other than starting a dialogue
Click to expand...
Yes I’ve just recently adjusted my diet for the better I hope plus hockey season has started!
I’d say between shadowing them helping with crane setup, driving and operating well over 200 hours, not a ton by any stretch but it was the quality of those hours, but it’s the little things you don’t forget and are a great help that have made me a better operator. I think because I’ve worked with cranes as a climber so much, it’s made me know in the cab what’s going on in the tree, and what my climbers are thinking and I’m able to help them out on the radios that has made the transition a good one that’s for sure. Knowing how much to pretension, weights of limbs and trunk wood especially, even though we use the Green log chart when we get down to trunk wood all of the time for critical picks. I’ll have to give some thought on how to help promote it, I’m currently dreading all the snow that’s coming down right now !
 
My experience with Paul and the Crane class has changed my world. The fact I do crane work every day is irrelevant because of the size of the crane and the fact the operator doesn't do modern controlled crane pics. If you want to see sloppy crane work, come work with us. My plan is to spread the wealth and to "pay it forward" as others have done for me. If they will have me, I plan on taking my truck to Philly for the crane class and host as many climbers that want some kboom experience. I also have a 5 day kitchen pass to travel some once in a while. I think what Paul and Pete do advances out industry and makes everyone safer. So many people wing it on crane jobs and its scary. I have to mention Rick Yoos as a consummate professional who gives and gives with no expectations in return. The help he has given me is immeasurable. I will forever be in his debt and in his honor I will try to help others as he has helped me! The kboom and treemek is a totally different animal. Without knowledge of tree work and general removal knowledge people will cause mass destruction and devastation with their trucks. The wiggle room for mistakes is much smaller in my opinion. I don't think the average guy with a ton of cash can buy a treemek and start successfully removing trees. Somebody is gonna die! As so far as the card. I didn't learn anything other than that I can still pass a test. Its a compliance issue and the hope of reduced insurance rates. I've always been a play within certain rules kinda guy especially when not doing so results in costing me tons of money. I think a core group who isn't trying to get rich training people is the key. The class by big tree pros is great but I can't stomach $2k to lean some things here and there. The service Paul and Rick provide as well as the crane class is a much better value. I went to Paul for training and never expected to get compensated for my time. I would have taken what he gave me in knowledge as payment enough for my time. We have a responsibility to the industry as professionals to give back as much as we have been given. Oddly I will be the only kboom crane for hundreds of miles around me. It'll be interesting to see how the concept of a crane that isn't a stick will do in the Virginia market. I'm either gonna kill it or struggle until I have to sell the unit. Hopefully the first. All we can do is share the invite and hope people take our offer! @sjtreeguy
 
I hate the name, and I'm not sure about the concept: A class for people who own cranes but aren't sure how to operate them, run as a non-profit barter for work collective?
 
Please take all these responses as positive as that is how they are intended.

"The main reason we should want to do this is because it's right. EXACTLY

"I’d gladly welcome someone as well thinking about buying a crane to come out with us and learn hands on." I welcome anyone also

As I said I have no idea how to achieve this other than starting a dialogue" Yes

"I think because I’ve worked with cranes as a climber so much, it’s made me know in the cab what’s going on in the tree, and what my climbers are thinking and I’m able to help them out on the radios that has made the transition a good one that’s for sure" Communication is the key to good/safe tree/crane work

"even though we use the Green log chart when we get down to trunk wood all of the time for critical picks" By definition all Tree related picks are critical picks
Critical lift: The item to be lifted requires exceptional care in handling because of size, weight, close-tolerance installation, high susceptibility to damage or other unusual factor.(unusual factor = unknown weight; personnel being lifted; lifting over personnel )
Or lift is 75% of capacity

There are already resources that can compliment a good training program. It doesn't matter how involved they are. They can all add up to valuable knowledge. Understanding the crane, the load chart and trees is the basic. A good knowledge of rigging trees is important to know how wood fibers react.
Non tree related crane training is very valuable. It helps to build an understanding of the cranes capabilities and how it should be set up. It is a great start. Think of it as cross training. A good training program helps you through the thought process as well as operation of the crane. ie: how do you catch a swinging load; how does shock loading affect the crane/pick; terminology such as tipping momentum; boom deflection; etc...

The cost of training is immaterial when it comes to safety and production. $2000 and loss of time at work verses an accident or inefficient work practices. There is no price that can be put on ones life or quality of after an injury. The loss of money during training can be more than made up for with the efficiency and production increase afterward

These are just a couple of my thoughts and I think this thread is a great starting point for things to come.
 
I started out working with a company for five years using a crane that was where theinitial experience came from I attended a 5 day class back in 2002 in Florida which was not about trees but good for. Cranes in general. I have attended many seminars at ISA and TCIA where crane use was discussed by working arborist. I have been to a crane class in Massachusetts that was hands on and many more. I went through the operator union class here and their 5 week hands on class

The thing is it can’t be learned overnight. But one of the hands on classes like crane man inc is great for getting going but getting classroom time is very important also.
 
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