Tree ID and removal help

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I've lurked around for quite a while as I've become very interested in tree climbing and arboriculture in general, however, I finally have a question for the real professionals.

I'm a homeowner who lives in Lithia, Fl and have an oak tree on my property that I think may need to be removed as it appears to be dead/dying. I initially called an ISA certified arborist but wanted to get some more opinions. The arborist informed me that the tree is dying, and that while it doesn't need to be removed immediately, it will eventually. I did not ask him what he thinks could have killed it, however it does appear as though there is fungus growing on the tree approximately 20' up.

The tree has been healthy for the past couple of years until this past fall/winter when I began to notice it appeared to be losing more leaves than the other trees. This spring all of our other trees have greened up really nicely, however this one is mostly brown. The picture actually makes it look more green than it really is. It's been a very dry year here for whatever that's worth.

My questions are:

1. What kind of oak tree is this? Certified arborist said a laural oak and I believe he's correct as the bark is pretty shallow and laurels are common around here.

2. Is this tree in fact dead/dying?

3. If the tree is dead and needs to be removed, what is a fair price to have it taken down to the stump and everything hauled away? The tree is approximately 20" in diameter. The stump can be left in place.

So far I have received three quotes from a low of $750 to a high of $2100. The $750 quote was a referral from a neighbor, however the individual in question performing the work is not licensed or insured but does "excellent work." Despite this, for obvious reasons I will not be using him.

The $2100 quote is from a good sized local company and the above stated ISA certified arborist.

I also have an excellent lawn guy who has recently started offering tree work. While not an ISA certified arborist, he does have a business license from the county and insurance for tree work. He has experience with tree removal as he maintains his family's working ranch, but just recently started getting into it commercially. His price is $1490 and he discussed with me how he would go about the removal.

He informed me that he would be using an articulating boom lift and ground crew with rigging lines to dismantle the tree in pieces down to the "peg" and then fell the peg in multiple sections against its lean using wedges, humbolt cuts and a tag line.

The ISA certified arborist stated that he was going to climb the tree and then dismantle it using a crane.

I've done some research on here as well as other sites and it seems like it's sort of a six in one hand half dozen in the other sort of thing, except that our lawn guy is approximately $600 cheaper.

While our lawn guy isn't a dedicated tree guy and doesn't have the experience of an ISA certified arborist, he has performed this work before and over the years I've known him he has always been a very straight shooter, has an eye for detail and seems to be extremely proficient at whatever he does. If he can't do it the best, he doesn't do it. He's also a career firefighter, so he does also have substantial experience with working at height, risk assessment, ropes and heavy rigging. I'm not really sure why his price is so much lower than the other as hes not a cheap lawn man in fact he's the most expensive we have ever had, however he is also the best we've ever had by far.

Thank you and any advice/help is much appreciated!




The tree in question:

 

[cerviarborist]

Lawn maintenance insurance doesn't cover tree work and vice versa. Also Lawn Maintenance Worker's comp doesn't cover guys in lifts. You might want to extend your due diligence to getting an actual copy of his insurance certificate to make sure your contractor is in fact more than just "insured", but actually insured to be above your property in a lift moving large pieces of hardwood by rope. You're going to have to have the Hillsborough Co Municipal Arborist out to get a permit for removal anyway. They're straight shooters and won't mince words. If the tree's a gonner, they'll give you a permit. Call them and ask them to come out to look at your tree and advise whether you can get a permit for removal. Your tree will be seen by a Certified Arborist who's not trying to sell you something.

 

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Lawn maintenance insurance doesn't cover tree work and vice versa. Also Lawn Maintenance Worker's comp doesn't cover guys in lifts. You might want to extend your due diligence to getting an actual copy of his insurance certificate to make sure your contractor is in fact more than just "insured", but actually insured to be above your property in a lift moving large pieces of hardwood by rope. You're going to have to have the Hillsborough Co Municipal Arborist out to get a permit for removal anyway. They're straight shooters and won't mince words. If the tree's a gonner, they'll give you a permit. Call them and ask them to come out to look at your tree and advise whether you can get a permit for removal. Your tree will be seen by a Certified Arborist who's not trying to sell you something.

Thank you for the reply. I do realize that there is a difference and he is appropriately licensed and insured for tree work in addition to lawn maintenance. He gave me a copy of his updated insurance certificate when we last spoke.

I will get in contact with the county and have them send out an arborist. I didn't realize that was an option. That seems best as there is no potential conflict of interest like you pointed out.

 

[cerviarborist]

The county will also accept a notarized affidavit from a Certified Arborist as to the condition of the tree and the necessity for its' removal. In the event that the county can't get to your property expediently, you might want to re-engage the Certified Arborist you had out before on a fee-paid consultive basis to complete and submit the form to the county. You can then put the job out for bid and all of your prospective contractors will be on more of a level playing field. Most tree services aren't going to want to bid a job on the basis of a photo.

The photo only seems to tell part of the story. Is the tree stem entirely on your property? What's to the left of the tree in the photo? Is that also your property? Are the red barns on your property?

 

[Mr. Goodtimes]

The county will also accept a notarized affidavit from a Certified Arborist as to the condition of the tree and the necessity for its' removal. In the event that the county can't get to your property expediently, you might want to re-engage the Certified Arborist you had out before on a fee-paid consultive basis to complete and submit the form to the county. You can then put the job out for bid and all of your prospective contractors will be on more of a level playing field. Most tree services aren't going to want to bid a job on the basis of a photo.

The photo only seems to tell part of the story. Is the tree stem entirely on your property? What's to the left of the tree in the photo? Is that also your property? Are the red barns on your property?

To the left of the picture is about a five acre drainage pond that is owned by the county and has been dry as a bone for the last couple of years. The barns are all on my property as is the tree. The property line ends about fifteen feet to the left of the tree.

 

[oldoakman]

Thank you for the reply. I do realize that there is a difference and he is appropriately licensed and insured for tree work in addition to lawn maintenance. He gave me a copy of his updated insurance certificate when we last spoke.

I will get in contact with the county and have them send out an arborist. I didn't realize that was an option. That seems best as there is no potential conflict of interest like you pointed out.

I wish everyone was as thorough as you are when contemplating purchasing tree care services. You are to be complemented.

 

[cerviarborist]

By the way Mr. G. Can you take a close up or zoom photo of that orange object in the canopy? I can't make it out in detail from the photo you supplied. If it's the fruiting body of a fungus, you may not want to rig out of that tree after all. If it's a stuck frisbee...carry on.

 

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I wish everyone was as thorough as you are when contemplating purchasing tree care services. You are to be complemented.

I appreciate the kind words. I like to at least be somewhat knowledgeable about the things I do in life, especially when buying products and services. I've been burned in the past by contractors and sales people so, I'm fairly distrustful of anyone trying to take my money, actually I'd say I'm fairly distrustful of people in general, and while I do trust people, I also verify. Some times people are just outright liars, but often times I think people aren't even knowingly lying or trying to be deceitful, they're just misinformed, incorrect or unwilling to admit they don't know something they should, and that can sometimes be a big problem.

Sometimes people were taught wrong and that's what they think is right, and just because uncle Jim Bob taught you to do something a certain way and it hasn't killed you yet, doesn't mean it is the correct way. Then you have the people who don't know the answer, but should, so they fabricate one to avoid embarrassment.

It's also not a personal thing. I'm a career firefighter as well, which is how I found our lawn guy. However, you still verify as in our line of work and I'm sure yours too, if you have any doubt you verify as there aren't always do overs, and the penalty for failure isn't a bad review on google, it's potentially a life altering event or death.

One of the things I've noticed about contract work weather it be tree work or construction is that prices vary from "wow that's so cheap I don't know how he can afford to stay in business" to "wow that's so expensive I don't know how anyone would pay that."

I have preconceived ideas as to what I think is fair and what I think is a ripoff. I figure for someone like my lawn guy to come do the job something in the neighborhood of $80-$100 a man hour is pretty fair. He is licensed, he is insured, he is performing a highly skilled task that has a high potential risk with a very high penalty for failure and very minimal room for error. He is using mostly hand tools, a pickup truck and a small dump trailer so I figure the job will take him the better part of a day with a helper.

I'm somewhat familiar with equipment rental and cost of tools so I figure if I break down his price of $1490 it would look something like this:

Lift Rental: $300
Ground Labor: $200
Dump Fees:$120 It costs approx $40/ton to dump in Hillsborough county and I would estimate that tree is at least 4 tonnes.

If it takes him ten hours to do everything (which I doubt it will as the guy works like a machine) that would leave him $89 an hour to cover fuel wear and tear on his equipment and taxes. So, I would say he's actually bringing him self home around $50 an hour which is in my opinion, on the lower end of fair. I've seen way lazier people doing way less skilled work in the AC for that kind of money.

I figure the licensed Arborist is going to probably have the whole job done in a few hours but he's operating what I would imagine is probably at least a $150,000 medium duty truck with $30k chipper and a multi man ground crew so, while hourly his rate is much higher so are his expenses.

Maybe I'm a little old fashioned but, I feel like a small business owner/operator performing skilled work, taking a risk on his/her investment etc... should be able walk away from a job with at least $50 an hour. I think in this country in general we seem to place value on some of the wrong things. People seem to think it's ok that a pharmacist makes $80 an hour but it's absurd that a welder or an electrician, lineman, arborist, police officer, firefighter, pilot etc... could possibly make as much money. Why, because they're not college educated? College educated or not they're all highly technical skills that take time to learn and master have little to no margin for error.

I'll end my rant now

I appreciate the help and insight of this forum, there's a lot of great information floating around here.

 

[Mr. Goodtimes]

By the way Mr. G. Can you take a close up or zoom photo of that orange object in the canopy? I can't make it out in detail from the photo you supplied. If it's the fruiting body of a fungus, you may not want to rig out of that tree after all. If it's a stuck frisbee...carry on.

It's definitely not a frisbee. I'll get another pic when I get home. It appears to be a fungus, which I'm assuming what has killed or is killing the tree.

 

[Blair Guerrero]

I think, a professional tree removal service can help you in identification and removal of this huge big tree. Recently, a friend of mine from Sydney, has hired the professional service (http://www.gardeningnorthside.com.au/landscaping-north-shore/) from his area and got the big pine tree removed very easily. He told me about the team on my recent visit to his home. Experienced faculty can handle this type of situation is much better way. You can go with the professional service, if available in your area.