Tree Company Owners that aren't tree guys...

T

TreeRaker

Location
Nashville
How does everyone feel about working for companies where the owner is not a tree guy, but just a business person?

I recently did a contract climb for a company from another region, that is advertising in my region, and taking jobs. They basically do all the pencil pushing, then subcontract out the work. It was clear that when I was on site, that the guys running the job had no idea about anything related to proper tree work. They had me lion tailing trees in the middle of summer for a "Clean Look", and Topping pines that had absolutely no business being topped. I did the work, because I had been brought on to the job by a peer of mine that I respect. Afterwords, we were both like, WTF was that? Just wondering what other real tree guys thought about this. I understand we all need to put pork chops on our plates, but this might be a place to draw a line, and not take these kinds of jobs.

Personally, I feel like from the years of work that we put in to learn the craft, I feel like a jerk to loan that expertise to someone who is gonna elevate their company with my work, without me getting the credit/owner compensation. I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts on this.
 
If you engaged in lion tailing and topping, it doesn't seem as though anyone was elevated in this outing.

If indeed you do not intend to engage in substandard work, then make it plain that you strictly adhere to ANSI A-300 standards of tree care and will not engage in practices which do not adhere to that standard. Maybe put a section about that in your work contract to the effect that you will decline to engage in substandard practices, but they'll still have to pay you for the day. Also state that you're willing to advise on standard practice alternatives to substandard specifications.
 
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cerviarborist said:
If you engaged in lion tailing and topping, it doesn't seem as though anyone was elevated in this outing.

If indeed you do not intend to engage in substandard work, then make it plain that strictly adhere to ANSI A-300 standards of tree care and will not engage in practices which do not adhere to that standard. Maybe put a section about that in your work contract to the effect that you will decline to engage in substandard practices, but they'll still have to pay you for the day. Also state that you're willing to advise on standard practice alternatives to substandard specifications.
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That is excellent advice…well said.
 
To be fair, there are plenty of "tree guys" who will do the same thing.

It is about business ethics, not background of owners. Non-tree guy owners can still care about quality.

I don't contract climb, but I would have offered proper pruning or nothing at all. I've done that multiple times. Mostly that is sorted out when I'm bidding. I'll explain "we won't top the tree" or "that is not a good thing for the tree, here is an alternative". If they like what we offer, we'll get the job if they are determined to have it topped, we won't, and that is OK.

I recognize this his different because you were already on site...but it is just one job. Like @cerviarborist said, put those standards in your contact. That puts them in the bind asking "do we let him do the right thing or do we walk on the job" rather than you asking "do I do the wrong thing or do I walk on the job?".
 
ATH said:
To be fair, there are plenty of "tree guys" who will do the same thing.

It is about business ethics, not background of owners. Non-tree guy owners can still care about quality.

I don't contract climb, but I would have offered proper pruning or nothing at all. I've done that multiple times. Mostly that is sorted out when I'm bidding. I'll explain "we won't top the tree" or "that is not a good thing for the tree, here is an alternative". If they like what we offer, we'll get the job if they are determined to have it topped, we won't, and that is OK.

I recognize this his different because you were already on site...but it is just one job. Like @cerviarborist said, put those standards in your contact. That puts them in the bind asking "do we let him do the right thing or do we walk on the job" rather than you asking "do I do the wrong thing or do I walk on the job?".
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"that is not a good thing for the tree, here is an alternative"


I would rather say that it causes irreparable damage, like washing a car with coarse sandpaper. It will be clean, and it will be damaged forever. I offer to break any windows that are in too good of shape and too strong. Try to make them laugh, while getting my point across without any ambiguity about the damage.
 
I had a similar situation with this from a guy who bought a franchise and bought all the nice new equipment but had no understanding of how anything worked, he just knew about restaurant franchises and how that works. He hired “experienced” guys to train other guys he would bring on that also had no experience. I got out of that situation quickly because it was not safe, none of the work was done correctly and the owner was constantly pushing to make more money without understanding what it actually takes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
At the end of the day.. YOU decide where your values lay. Even though you didn't agree with the situation, or the improper work that they wanted to perform, you performed it anyway. It's only one job at the end of the day, if nothing else you gained an experience. Enjoy that pork chop!
 
Wear a spare shirt prominently emblazoned with some made up name you go by for that job/day so the badness of the job you leave behind doesn't get associated with your reputation. ;) Just kidding. Sort of.

I had a work for/with unknowledgeable idiot experience once where he assumed "boss" role for a particular client and instructed me not to talk to the client. Well, the job offed up bad, not due to any mistake I made, but due to operational idiocy and I was glad all the reference and contact info was for the idiot and not me. That was the end of our working relationship. I operate tete a tete with the client, same page or no go.
 
cerviarborist said:
If you engaged in lion tailing and topping, it doesn't seem as though anyone was elevated in this outing.

If indeed you do not intend to engage in substandard work, then make it plain that you strictly adhere to ANSI A-300 standards of tree care and will not engage in practices which do not adhere to that standard. Maybe put a section about that in your work contract to the effect that you will decline to engage in substandard practices, but they'll still have to pay you for the day. Also state that you're willing to advise on standard practice alternatives to substandard specifications.
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I tried to share the info with them, but just got a bullheaded know it all response. Learned my lesson though..
 
TreeRaker said:
Thank you to everyone for the thoughtful replies. Everyone here reads like real tree guys, which is a relief. I've decided to not do anymore work with the company. After writing this out when I posted, I made the decision to not go against my sensibilities. Quality work, or no work.
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I try always to remember that the condition of the trees after I've finished my work, is my signature.
 
What do you feel comfortable doing that at the end of the day you aren’t gonna be doubting yourself or having regrets is what you need to consider here. Whether you’re a company owner, employee, or contract climber.

There will always be trees that need trimming or removal, so you don’t need to compromise on your ethics for profit. Perfectly fine to walk away from something that you don’t feel comfortable doing.
 
These types grate me. Doing bad work you know is wrong is on you, not these guys fault, they are scabs on the industry money being their sole motivation, stop enabling them. 2nd these companies are forced to hire sub climbers at what ever rate they want, because they cant do the work, creating an over inflated climber market with sub par skill sets. Not insinuating this is the OP. The industry would do well to weed out both. This will happen when the" real tree guys"say enough working for people who shouldnt be doing tree work and employers stop hiring subs at crazy rates who dont warrant it.
 
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