Hello everybody, just looking for some input on in tree line advancement for no spike jobs. I've been toying with throw bags in tree, and it's more often than not a pain in the ass to keep the bag and the line in order. I'm looking for a little advice as to what works for other folks. Obviously tossing the biner/snap over limbs is ideal, but I'm looking for a way to get to those limbs that are a bit further than snap/biner end tossing works on. I've been considering the captain hook, but want to hear peoples thoughts before spending that hard earned and much needed dough on.
Thoughts on in tree line advancement (no spikes) captain hook?
- Thread starter Slaphappy
- Start date
Reach
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Atglen, PA
Tie the end of the rope in a throwing knot/monkey fist and it will be weighted enough to throw further. When I used to do that, I could get about 20’ out of it.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Key is to have multiple available strategies, conifers obviously way different to advance in than broadleafs and then per species or individual tree conditions can be completely different.
I don't carry throwline any more. But then again I'm not climbing old-growth sequoia, in-tree throwline is the easiest way to advance when the trunk is way too wide to get a lanyard around it easily and the limbs are too large/widely spaced to fling a monkeyfist.
Captain Hook is not great for throwing straight up above you, and it's a lot coming back at you if you miss. I use it a lot advancing for an arm's length quick static hold while I advance some other part of my system.
I use a carabiner on the end of my short lanyard, not a rope snap this gives me more options advancing. To me a lanyard is just a short climbing system that can be used a bunch of ways, on the D's traditional or on the bridge as a second climbing system. You can flip the end just about anywhere above you with a 10-12 oz bag clipped to the end depending on the weight/thickness of your lanyard cordage.
If the spar isn't too wide and there's no opportunity for one reason of the other to get anything over a limb above me I girth a long sling (or chain two together if I need more length) around the spar and create a step. Once I step up I choke my lanyard or end of my main rope above me on the spar. See Petzl's literature on safe use of a choked carabiner on a spar. Often one step up is all you need, if not rinse and repeat till you can reach something to get a line over.
-AJ
I don't carry throwline any more. But then again I'm not climbing old-growth sequoia, in-tree throwline is the easiest way to advance when the trunk is way too wide to get a lanyard around it easily and the limbs are too large/widely spaced to fling a monkeyfist.
Captain Hook is not great for throwing straight up above you, and it's a lot coming back at you if you miss. I use it a lot advancing for an arm's length quick static hold while I advance some other part of my system.
I use a carabiner on the end of my short lanyard, not a rope snap this gives me more options advancing. To me a lanyard is just a short climbing system that can be used a bunch of ways, on the D's traditional or on the bridge as a second climbing system. You can flip the end just about anywhere above you with a 10-12 oz bag clipped to the end depending on the weight/thickness of your lanyard cordage.
If the spar isn't too wide and there's no opportunity for one reason of the other to get anything over a limb above me I girth a long sling (or chain two together if I need more length) around the spar and create a step. Once I step up I choke my lanyard or end of my main rope above me on the spar. See Petzl's literature on safe use of a choked carabiner on a spar. Often one step up is all you need, if not rinse and repeat till you can reach something to get a line over.
-AJ
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moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Just to clarify, if you extend the Captain Hook beyond its intended use as a traverse tool, think of it and use it in the same way, not as a primary climbing system (it would be if you threw it above you and climbed on it). For example I might use it to hold position and prevent swingback while I'm advancing out on a challenging limbwalk. That is no different than a traverse in principle. I will sometimes use it as a "static hold" while I'm reconfiguring some other part of my climbing systems. That could be while I'm advancing. That's why I use the term "static hold" in reference to the Hook. It is secure if well placed and I'm not ascending or descending on it.
-AJ
-AJ
I've used my Fiskars pruning stick before to advance a line. Adjust the angle of the head so a carabiner (with cord attached) just barely stays in the jaws so you can shake it free once over the branch. Can also grab the biner and pull it back to yourself if necessary. It's a pain dealing with the Fiskars in a tree IMHO. I don't see using that technique again.
I made up a couple of etriers which are useful when you need to climb above your TIP. Same principle as stepping up in a sling girthed on the tree, but several steps instead of just one.
I just bought a tiny bag for in-tree throwline use , but haven't used it yet.
Pic shows one etrier and the throwline bag. That etrier has sleeves of 1" tubular webbing to help hold the steps open. On the other one, I put short pieces of rebar inside the tubular webbing for the steps; it works slightly better, but may not be worth the extra weight. Of course, you can just buy pre-made etriers as well.
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I made up a couple of etriers which are useful when you need to climb above your TIP. Same principle as stepping up in a sling girthed on the tree, but several steps instead of just one.
I just bought a tiny bag for in-tree throwline use , but haven't used it yet.
Pic shows one etrier and the throwline bag. That etrier has sleeves of 1" tubular webbing to help hold the steps open. On the other one, I put short pieces of rebar inside the tubular webbing for the steps; it works slightly better, but may not be worth the extra weight. Of course, you can just buy pre-made etriers as well.
ATTACH=full]79001[/ATTACH]
Attachments
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
I use a 6 oz throwbag with a mini carabiner on it. I clip that to the carabiner on my termination and that is plenty of weight for good tosses and to have the end come back down without too much effort. Another bonus is that if it hits you, it isn’t too painful.
Chris Schultz
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Minturn
Try a heavier carabiner…. Today I used my new DMM kleterstein (I think that’s its name…) and man so much better than my rock o for throwing/advancing. Just a tad heavier, and a super stout gate, with accuracy I was getting limbs 15’+ above me.
- Location
- Finksburg
I also do a 8 oz throw bag and it works well. At times I’ll also use the hook on the back of my pole saw.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I rarely see a tree I cannot advance in. I personally learned to climb using a locking rope snap, and hated switching to carabiners for the lack of extra weight. Now I just use a petzl oxan on all my rope terminations, it has a good heft without being one of the huge steel pear carabiners.. I can hit most all I need with this, but the few and rare times I cannot I'll do a coiled monkey fist. There are two forms, locked and non locked just make damn sure the crotch your aiming for is wide enough to retrieve if needed.
I can see a few ways of advancing with a hook safely, but all of them would be a epic pain in the ass
I can see a few ways of advancing with a hook safely, but all of them would be a epic pain in the ass
Jehinten
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Evansville
If you go the route of a throwing knot, I often use a noose with the loop tightend up to just inside the coils. If you do hit a tight union and cannot get it to drop, a tug on the rope will untie the knot so that it can be retrieved.
Chris Schultz
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Minturn
@moss
See Petzl's literature on safe use of a choked carabiner on a spar.
All I could see on this hyperlink was an image of the ever controversial cross loaded carabiner……
See Petzl's literature on safe use of a choked carabiner on a spar.
All I could see on this hyperlink was an image of the ever controversial cross loaded carabiner……
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
They are approving the use for specific scenarios, as in the spar choke shown in their illustration.
Specific terms are important, cross-loading as I understand is loading the carabiner across the horizontal or “minor” axis, essentially loading the gate. Side-loading is loading the spine of the carabiner off the vertical axis. In a carabiner choke on the spar with the gate generally opposing the direction of force as shown in the Petzl diagram there is no room for the spine to flex or bend. Alloy carabiners do not shatter under load above their rating, the spine bends first. If it cannot bend it cannot break. Carabiner spines fail when side loaded against a hard corner or edge as shown in all alloy carabiner safety literature. Knowledge is empowering over myth.
Note: A carabiner choke should never be set as a remote anchor, too many things can go wrong.
-AJ
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Man, thanks everyone for the advice and ideas, tons of good info you guys sent my way. I already ordered a dedicated lower weight throwbag for in tree only, and I'm going to run a heavier biner on my lanyard as well (just not a snap fan) I've always ran aluminum on aluminum, but I'm thinking of going steel for the throwing side biner, any input on the wear and tear of steel on aluminum rings?, is this a bad idea for my aluminum d's?
Also ordering an etrier, which looks incredibly useful in some scenarios and I have not heard of until this post. Looking into retracting reels as well, maybe I'll be up there with a short fishing pole casting away in the breeze haha. Oh and I should probably work on getting decent with my throwing knot game.
Thanks again everyone for the solid advice, its truly appreciated.
Also ordering an etrier, which looks incredibly useful in some scenarios and I have not heard of until this post. Looking into retracting reels as well, maybe I'll be up there with a short fishing pole casting away in the breeze haha. Oh and I should probably work on getting decent with my throwing knot game.
Thanks again everyone for the solid advice, its truly appreciated.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
If you put a steel carabiner on the end of your lanyard or main line for advancing you definitely won't need to add a throwbag, steel biner is plenty of weight for throwing. Just be super careful when you're pulling your lanyard back out of a "sticky thicket". It will be happy to pop you in the face free of charge.
I wouldn't worry about a steel biner wearing your side D's. It will end up being some percentage more than alloy but insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
I see you're in CT, I haven't talked to Ian about it @goodaking we usually have a Connecticut winter rec climb in January or February, we'll announce when we set dates.
-AJ
robinia
Participating member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Same here with the big steel biners. I miss the versatility of having that weight to throw.
I don’t miss getting them in the face the odd time though.
It didn’t happen too many times but I’m still surprised I didn’t break something
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
I met one of my closest friends because of a steel rope snap. He was working for a company in the Portland area and was climbing a silver maple. While he was advancing his line, he threw his rope snap and it hung up about 20 or so feet above him. When he pulled it, it came back and hit him in the hand and broke a bone. Because of his hand being broken, the company he worked for brought me in as a contract climber. While I was working there he and I met and have been great friends ever since. So, maybe having a heavy piece of hardware on the end of your climbing line can be a good thing!?
Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
I bought an extendable pole thingie from WesSpur about four years ago called a SideKick. I don't think they are available anymore but I love the gadget. It is about 18 inches long or so and just hangs on the back of the saddle until I need it. Then it extends with a few twists to 9 feet long, for pushing a throwbag up thru clutter or reaching sideways to grab a throw line hanging out of reach. A person could easily make such a thing from a golf ball retrieval pole. They are extendable and come various lengths. I just got a stainless steel one that is also 9 feet long but collapses even shorter than the SideKick. I still need to remove the gold ball grab and mod the tip into a gentle S-shaped hook so that it will both hook something and also you could hang a throwbag on it to push it up.
ghostice
Been here a while
Second the golf ball retrieval pole thingy. In Japan, pole fishing is practiced with a single long pole and line - in fact making these bamboo poles is considered an art form. There are collapsible sectioned carbon poles available for this kind of fishing which have been adapted to line advancement - one example is Densan Silver Fisher Mini 4m DVF-4000 which was used by daigentanoen in some of his tree climbing videos. The sectioned poles I've bought so far from US tree gear suppliers are frankly wanting. Some stick and some collapse - in short perfect gear made of the best Chinesium.
Winchman
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Southwest Georgia
I use an aluminum extension ( ex pool cleaning) pole with an L on the end to drop a throw weight higher in the canopy. The sixteen foot reach with dead-on accuracy is better than I was ever able to get throwing a bag while in the tree.
That gives me a higher TIP for the NEXT set-up and climb. I suppose it could be used to set a higher TIP for immediate use with SRT, but I'll let y'all figure out the details.
That gives me a higher TIP for the NEXT set-up and climb. I suppose it could be used to set a higher TIP for immediate use with SRT, but I'll let y'all figure out the details.
