Muggs
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Canuckistan
There is no "industry"
- Thread starter Muggs
- Start date
data farm 26
Been here a while
- Location
- Casablanca
My bro and I would always say let's take the little boat out today and see what we can catch. 
I like your overall theory, btw. Haven't watched a tree vid in years but that was cool. Thanks.
I like your overall theory, btw. Haven't watched a tree vid in years but that was cool. Thanks.
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- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Hear Him!
Hear Him!
Hear Him!
You never mentioned your literary arts degree before 
Lots of bait n hook lines sure to get responses. Well written!
You could link in some of your content geared to hard science to yin/yang with rules/rote/generalisation 'human-i-ficial" intelligence (see what I did there? )
Lots of bait n hook lines sure to get responses. Well written!You could link in some of your content geared to hard science to yin/yang with rules/rote/generalisation 'human-i-ficial" intelligence (see what I did there?
)It’s really quite impressive how divisive many skilled trades have become, more and more it seems that knowledge is some sort of trade secret. The effects of this will become clear as the “old school” guys begin to age out, and the knowledge will leave with them. I was once told to take something from anyone I worked with whether good or bad.
Thanks muggs for still sharing that knowledge and experiences with anyone who cares to learn, I’ll be honest your early videos were ones I referenced frequently.
Thanks muggs for still sharing that knowledge and experiences with anyone who cares to learn, I’ll be honest your early videos were ones I referenced frequently.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Academy award, and lifetime contribution to tree climbing!
When one of my younger brothers was learning to become a mason he found out that watching a crew working on a stone wall might cause them to take a cigarette break until he stopped looking. The ways of their trade would not be given away that easily.
Before I figured out that I could talk to people online about tree climbing I was inspired when I first saw a climber soloing on a red oak pruning job. He set a high anchor and went out on long limbs over a house to take them apart piece-by-piece. It was clear he was working the angles and making it look reasonable to float on limb ends that should've been a no go zone. He was a dancer whether he knew it or not. The demands of the work had formed his body and movements. Always a low center of gravity, equilibrium and poise maintained, wrestling meets ballet with a purpose.
After 8 years of mostly rec climbing the opportunity of a corporate layoff led to being the guy with a pickup truck and a couple chainsaws. I was a decent climber schooled on the biggest and most interesting forest trees I could find, but pitiful as a tree worker. At least in the eyes of the professionals that I worked for here and there. I was happy to be in trees even under pressure to perform. Best lessons were from a couple of experienced ground workers. They had very practical advice as I went through "Duh!" moments and minor mishaps. "You pinched the bar? Release it with your handsaw". Of course! I was so focused on trying to yank my top handle out of a rushed incomplete cut that I missed the obvious.
To use Mugg's metaphor, I had to set sail in order to find my own way of working in trees. I didn't come up through a tree work apprenticeship, no one to tell me "this is the way to do it". My mind was free to go past certain traditional approaches that were not working for me.
Early on an arborist friend relayed what an old-timer had taught him: the 4 ways of the arm lanyard. The hand, the most used but weakest grab. The wrist, make a fist and grip over a branch in the crook of the bent wrist, surprisingly stable. The inner elbow, capture a more vertical limb or spar with the crook of the elbow. An even stronger hold with the hand free. Lastly, the shoulder grab locked on a branch/limb at your armpit. The most stable/strong hold and your arm and hand are free to help perform tasks. Using a modern lanyard is a superpower but don't forget your arm lanyard!
Point is there's a massive repository of practical knowledge out there if a climber is lucky enough to run into it but in the end you're alone at sea figuring it all out. Thx Muggs!
-AJ
When one of my younger brothers was learning to become a mason he found out that watching a crew working on a stone wall might cause them to take a cigarette break until he stopped looking. The ways of their trade would not be given away that easily.
Before I figured out that I could talk to people online about tree climbing I was inspired when I first saw a climber soloing on a red oak pruning job. He set a high anchor and went out on long limbs over a house to take them apart piece-by-piece. It was clear he was working the angles and making it look reasonable to float on limb ends that should've been a no go zone. He was a dancer whether he knew it or not. The demands of the work had formed his body and movements. Always a low center of gravity, equilibrium and poise maintained, wrestling meets ballet with a purpose.
After 8 years of mostly rec climbing the opportunity of a corporate layoff led to being the guy with a pickup truck and a couple chainsaws. I was a decent climber schooled on the biggest and most interesting forest trees I could find, but pitiful as a tree worker. At least in the eyes of the professionals that I worked for here and there. I was happy to be in trees even under pressure to perform. Best lessons were from a couple of experienced ground workers. They had very practical advice as I went through "Duh!" moments and minor mishaps. "You pinched the bar? Release it with your handsaw". Of course! I was so focused on trying to yank my top handle out of a rushed incomplete cut that I missed the obvious.
To use Mugg's metaphor, I had to set sail in order to find my own way of working in trees. I didn't come up through a tree work apprenticeship, no one to tell me "this is the way to do it". My mind was free to go past certain traditional approaches that were not working for me.
Early on an arborist friend relayed what an old-timer had taught him: the 4 ways of the arm lanyard. The hand, the most used but weakest grab. The wrist, make a fist and grip over a branch in the crook of the bent wrist, surprisingly stable. The inner elbow, capture a more vertical limb or spar with the crook of the elbow. An even stronger hold with the hand free. Lastly, the shoulder grab locked on a branch/limb at your armpit. The most stable/strong hold and your arm and hand are free to help perform tasks. Using a modern lanyard is a superpower but don't forget your arm lanyard!
Point is there's a massive repository of practical knowledge out there if a climber is lucky enough to run into it but in the end you're alone at sea figuring it all out. Thx Muggs!
-AJ
Bendroctanus
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Springfield
Can we all agree that the dog snaps on the leg loops are so simply cool.
Well said tree brother. Brilliant!
Well said tree brother. Brilliant!
Muggs
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Canuckistan
Love the arm lanyard story. I'll be thinking about that all week now. I pray that the old-time wisdom outlives us all.
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- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Single digits outdoors makes for movie watching weather
I watched the old black-and-white movie
en.wikipedia.org
There’s a lot of tie ins with this movie set aboard whaling ship. The generational transfer of knowledge, skills and pride and heart of doing a job is expressed real well.
I watched the old black-and-white movie
Down to the Sea in Ships (1949 film) - Wikipedia
There’s a lot of tie ins with this movie set aboard whaling ship. The generational transfer of knowledge, skills and pride and heart of doing a job is expressed real well.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
you lost from the second sentence... "why can no one agree on anything ever"
stop the falsifications... speak the truth.... that's total garbage... hahahhahahahhahaha
stop the falsifications... speak the truth.... that's total garbage... hahahhahahahhahaha
Muggs
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Canuckistan
Don't ever change Murph
Whip, zip, whir whir whir reel reel reel. Caught one
A caution on the arm lanyard. I used to do that free climbing - its the natural go to. But if you slip your whole body weight could put a yank/torque on a joint like your elbow or shoulder, or put a big lever on say your forearm bone and maybe even break a bone. So you can use it but have to be conscious of vulnerable geometries, probably mostly involving non-90deg crotches IIRC.
A caution on the arm lanyard. I used to do that free climbing - its the natural go to. But if you slip your whole body weight could put a yank/torque on a joint like your elbow or shoulder, or put a big lever on say your forearm bone and maybe even break a bone. So you can use it but have to be conscious of vulnerable geometries, probably mostly involving non-90deg crotches IIRC.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Whip, zip, whir whir whir reel reel reel. Caught one
A caution on the arm lanyard. I used to do that free climbing - its the natural go to. But if you slip your whole body weight could put a yank/torque on a joint like your elbow or shoulder, or put a big lever on say your forearm bone and maybe even break a bone. So you can use it but have to be conscious of vulnerable geometries, probably mostly involving non-90deg crotches IIRC.
Totally. Everything used with context awareness. I never shock load my arm lanyard ;-) It's like taking an intentional swing, looks awesome in videos but... everything within a climber's self-determined limits and margin of safety aka comfort zone.
-AJ
Here's one for you on the whole mentorship trades knowledge thing. I remember when robotic welding occurred and it went first by rote - master welder does weld machine measures it and copies it and then by breakdown of process parameters followed by fine tuning by iteration/repetition. Sound familiar? That's how AI works - data/parameters in, patterns recognised and fine tuned, "able to do it". What's to say the skill of face cuts, bypasses, back cuts etc can't be parameterised and automated? Take some hoo-daw sensors I'm sure. A mechanil is just a big forearm/hand with an over-hp-ed butt kick saw choice so its a primitive example of by rote, actually based on the operator's analysis of crane pick weight ops and brute force cuts.
Point being there were plenty of people who said a robot couldn't turn out a good weld and I wager a top welder has to be on his A game to match a robot now.
Point being there were plenty of people who said a robot couldn't turn out a good weld and I wager a top welder has to be on his A game to match a robot now.
I actually lost a welding job to a robot. My neighbor invented a device called the ProPlugger, and when he was in the start-up phase, asked if I would take on the welding chore in his garage/shop at his home. He soon moved on to a robotic welding shop, and that was that. They started selling at the local ACE hardware, and sell now at Lowes, where you can find video of he and his wife using the plugger at their house.
Stumpsprouts
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Asheville
‘All tree work is custom work.’ Quotable. Well done.
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