The Confusing World of Bee Line

[BEH2202]

Hey Guys,

Okay, My goal is to make some eye and eye prusiks out of 5/16" and 3/8" Bee Line respectively. So far I have checked out the Yale website, contacted Sherrill and WesSpur and still have not been able to figure out what classification the ropes fall into, whether they are splicable or not, and what splice to use on them if they are.

It is my understanding that there are 5 different Bee Lines currently on the market . . . Black 8mm and 10mm, the standard 8mm w/ black tracers, 10mm with blue tracers, and 10mm with the signature alternating black bands and yellow tracers. The Sherrill website states that everything is splicable except the black banded with yellow tracers 10mm-3/8". Is this accurate? If so, why is this cord not splicable?

If these cords are splicable what category do they fall into respectively (I or II)? And all of this leads me to my main question, which is how to execute a core to core splice on this stuff? Is it like working with a hollow braid where you use a straight bury or a locked brummel in the core and slide the cover back over? If that is the case isn't the strength provided by the cover totally lost? I do remember reading a post on here by Nick that stated he did it in a way that yielded a more balanced cover and core assembly. . . If anyone could get me pointed in the right direction I would really appreciate it. Thanks.



Brad

 

[itterada]

The grey 10mm with blue tracers has a vectran core vs. the black and yellows iirc all polyester core. The black 8mm and 10mm that Sherrill sells is just a recoloring of the 8 and 10mm vectran, as Sherrill is so fond of doing. So really, it's only 3 types on the market; theres an 8mm and then theres a 10mm polyester core and a 10mm vectran core. If you cut open the black and yellow you can see why they'd advise against splicing it

Technically speaking, you could splice the 10mm polyester core beeline using class 1 double braid splicing techniques, but it might be difficult and not yield much in the breaking strength department. That's my guess as to why they deem it unspliceable, it's just easier to do it that way sometimes.
The Vectran, on the other hand, would be a class 2 double braid splice because of the materiel in the core. It should be for maximum strength retention, anyway. The brummel splice isn't strong enough for use end to end, but in a prusik configuration it's more than enough and allows for a bury length that doesn't interfere with use as a friction hitch, etc, which is why all the hand spliced prusiks made out of beeline have the exposed eye brummel splice.
But yes, you do lose benefit of the jackets strength. For eye and eye prusiks, it is a locked brummel on both ends, then sliding the core back over before whipping it.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, do you recall who you talked with at WesSpur?

 

[tuttle]

Think about the brummeled core, the vectran will be approximatly 3350kgs mbs, with brummels it could be around 2500kgs mbs on it own, the cover is to act as friction device, and it does depend how the core and cover are attached in the finish.

Everything is splicable, you just need to understand the cover and core fibres and weave, maybe replace the core, and look on websites for the mix/match etc.

 

[MooseHead]

I have a FS I made myself out of 10mm beeline (with yellow tracer) and its been going strong for over 3 years now.

 

[BEH2202]

Alright,

So what I understand so far is that the 8mm and the 10mm with blue tracers both have Vectran cores and are considered class II lines. So, if I wanted to make anything besides friction hitches out of it I could use class II double braid splicing instructions to do so? I just want to make sure I am on the right track here.
Moving on to the locked Brummel splice . . . I am relatively new to the world of splicing so bear with me . . . When I started I bought the Samson splicing manual and dvd, in which there are instructions for making a whoopie sling out of Tenex and a set of instructions for making one out of Amsteel, which is considered a class II line. The instructions show how to make a locked Brummel, but they also state that the whoopie sling has a break strength of 60% of the published average rope strength. The book also has instructions for making an eye splice in Tenex and Amsteel, which involvs a straight bury. This splice, according to the text in the manual, can retain 90-100% of the published average rope strength. If the statements made by Samson are true why do we use the locked Brummel instead of the straight bury?
Actually making the splice . . . If I wanted to make a core to core splice in Bee Line would I use the instructions listed for making a locked Brummel out of Amsteel? Once the locked Brummels are made and the cover is slid back over the core are there any special instructions or techniques for whipping and lock stitching the splice?
I do not recall who I spoke to at WesSpur. It was a woman who answered the phone and she did make a valiant attempt to answer my questions, but to no avail. Thanks everyone for your feed back and input.



Brad

 

[tuttle]

The straight bury is because of a low-load scenario, where the bury could work free, so a good deal of whipping is required plus the rope bury might add to unflex-ability, brummels are easy, plus shorty bury.

I have done the lot, and never had a fail, but a few years when I did my first tenex, i did a straight bury and whipped it, left it overnight in the tree, it got rained on, when I the used it, it slipped 1", that was a scary moment, so stuck my thoughts on locking brummels.

 

[tuttle]

Forgot to mention, go on youtube and search for 'andrews core to core' Its 2 part videos, good referance points and tricks.

 

[uptojerry]

Is there a set bury length for the locked brummels in this application? Cheers