tenex eye and eye

Hello all,

I justed switched over in July using the tenex eye and eye split tail using the schwabisch (spelling?) hitch. I used the blakes always in the past, but love the security of the double eye and also the ease of sliding the hitch when advancing. The only question is when I have longer descents I notice the hitch binds up tighter on the climbing line (1/2") and the tenex has already worn pretty bad after two months of use. The inside of the tenex is starting to burn slightly and the small strands are frayed and worn pretty good.

Was wondering if ya'll had any recommendations with other split tails or friction hitches. Thanks a lot!
 
HRC is great stuff.... Ever heard of NOMEX? Firefighters use this in their fire retardent clothing.... guess that means that it's pretty heat resistant /forum/images/graemlins/ukliam2.gif HRC has Nomex in the cover, so it stands up to the abuse of tree work better than anything else that i have used (well not better than my lock jack)

Mix it up a little with your friction hitches... you might find something that you like better
 
Tenex is, I feel, a good product to make the switch from blakes to an eye and eye. But there are other cords that are hold up better than tenex. HRC, Beeline, technora are better options. The binding can be an issue with these other cords and other hitches, but not as bad as the blakes can.Get to know different knots and try them out. Also cord length can vastly change how a friction hitch acts.

Do a search as well, lots of good stuff here.

Steve
 
I prefer tenex for the knut that I typically use. It acts well on the climbing line. Advances and grabs oh so smoothly. Who cares if it doesn't last? Its cheap. Buy it by the foot and tie some double fisherman's.
 
Well jeez, Jon. If you'd finally make it up to the arboretum I could show you all this stuff! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Seriously, though. We should go for a fun climb when we can take the time to mess around and experiment with gear. Seeya in class tomorrow!
 
I'd never recommend tenex for friction hitch cord - no core for back up and quickly wears. Think of the risks in an emergency descent from hornets....

Any nylon polyester cord with a minimum diameter of 8mm and tensile strength of 1700Kg is perfectly adequate and quick and cheap to replace before it becomes stiff and qustionable. Just tie it off with two scaffold knots and leave 3" tails.

I haven't tried HRC yet, but it looks a nice cord. Avoid the spliced versions of the technical cords, unless you've lots of cash (this is tree work remember)- you won't want to get rid of it when it should because of the cost of splicing. Scaffold knots hold the krab better as well. Keep a few feet of cord with you and you'll always be able to replace your hitch in the field with knife, knot and tape.

I wouldn't want you to have another 'Figure 8' experience!
/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
i have preferred Tenex with Scaffold-Double Noose hitches for eyes; laced in Sailor Gripping Hitch for quite some time; without incident.

The tensile is high and has little loss in the flat device as it bends around host krab or lifeline for the arched dimension is flat-almost Zer0; the gripping footprint is wider.
 
Yes Spyder - but you understand the risk of not having a core.

I'm playing Devils advocate, as it is typical to focus on the benefits of equipment, without considering the drawbacks.

We've had this debate before, so I think we understand the points of view without being too anal retentive or all fluffed up about it : )

/forum/images/graemlins/laughpf.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd never recommend tenex for friction hitch cord - no core for back up and quickly wears. Think of the risks in an emergency descent from hornets....

Any nylon polyester cord with a minimum diameter of 8mm and tensile strength of 1700Kg is perfectly adequate and quick and cheap to replace before it becomes stiff and qustionable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Laz- You need to compare apples to apples here. A technora single braid has no core (for back up as you said) BUT can put up with way more abuse as a hitch cord than any polyester/nylon combo rope made. Just because it's a double braid doesn't mean it's better.

You mentioned the run-in with the hornets nest. Have you done comparisons of rapid hitch-cord descents? Technora/vectran/nomex will beat polyester/nylon time after time after time after time.

Urging someone away from technora and toward nylon of any type is doing them a disservice.

A core is not a back up.

love
nick
 
Maybe it's just because I'm such a light guy, but I just can't see melting through 10mm tenex to the point of failure, no matter how rapid the descent. But maybe that's just me...
 
I am comparing apples to apples Nick; tenex polyester hollow braid is not as secure for friction hitches as kernmantle or bouble braid polyester of the same diameter.

Put your specs on - I said 'Tenex', not technora.

Shows how confusing all this can be to the inexperienced.

Looks like your trying to make something out of something I haven't said.

The original question was about tenex eye and eye cord.

Leon - In my capacity as equipment inspector, instructor and assessor, you'd probably be amazed at what guys think is acceptable out in the field. my opinions are based on repeat experience of seeing these things show time and again - virtually worn through hollow braid, with the climber thinking the core is attached and secure, when its just a back splice. Just like climbers think a 16 strand single braid is a kernmatle, so if half the strands are cut, it doesn't matter because they have a core to rely on.

There are simple and safe alternatives for the inexperienced.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Laz- You need to compare apples to apples here. A technora single braid has no core (for back up as you said) BUT can put up with way more abuse as a hitch cord than any polyester/nylon combo rope made. Just because it's a double braid doesn't mean it's better.

You mentioned the run-in with the hornets nest. Have you done comparisons of rapid hitch-cord descents? Technora/vectran/nomex will beat polyester/nylon time after time after time after time.

Urging someone away from technora and toward nylon of any type is doing them a disservice.

love
nick

[/ QUOTE ]

PRECISELY the reason i'm moving towards a thin 12 strand Technora rope!!!! Its one of the most durable rope fibers ever made, extremely high melt point, extremely abrasion resistant and lighter than any other rope, as well as almost 75% stronger. (1/4" is rated for 8000 lbs.) I'm having some custom made Technora eye & eye loops made up to complement the rope.

I like tenex, great for rigging blocks and such. not so great for friciton hitches.
 
A Technora Rope? /forum/images/graemlins/shakinghead.gif Thats less stretch than steel cable!

I fear this will be the result /forum/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
 
i realize no core; but don't weigh much even dripping wet; don't do fast bail outs; so maybe my personel results are slanted.

Also, friction must equal support; then lack of support (movement) is rest of force; so same support amount for given loading is same friction total. My friction total is not all in hitch, but some on support, some on leg too. i think in the flat line, the friction itself is spread out over a wider area, not concentrated in one line on edge of round cord footprint contacting host line. In each case total friction would be same, just less per contact 'inch' in the flat device/Tenex?? Another point i've wondered about, is if the flat loose braid of the Tenex would insulate heat less/ breathe more than a round cord with smaller footprint and rest of line insulating the heat in covering the contact area??

With a core would still probably be safer; especially if it didn't alter these charachteristics that somewhat counter intuitively make the performance and safety differances betwixt the choice of flat and round device/cord for hitch.

When the newer hi-tech cords were first introduced i tried some; and thought they didn't seat/ grip as well (due to stiffness etc.) as my ol'Tenex; and likewise suspected an increased strength loss due to this higher stiffness being arched around such tight bights as a krab and host lifeline. Also, i thought that due to same stiffness that it wore out/ glazed sooner. i've read that later cords lasted longer; but stayed at home with the Tenex.


i don't compete, weigh much, bail out fast and hard etc.Perhaps not for everybody; Tenex has served me well for years of considering many factors and observations.

i think eyes should be maid with Scaffold Hitches/ Double or Triple Noose; they have shorter bridge if desired, more inspectable than splice, can be done by commoner in field; and with less line. The tests on these 2 or 3 coil Anchor Hitches to self to form eye always come out unbelieveabley high from what i've seen. Unless you give a RoundTurn around krab instead of a Simple Turn; when ususally a Round Turn is an upgrade. i think the Anchor Hitch part that comes around and grabs the 'throat' of the Standing Part as it serves into the krab is reinforcing/ firming this delicate point of m/any failures. i think this point where full loading takes it's first bend before friction reduction of force is 1 cause of this being the weakpoint in chain. Also Standing Part side stretches as krab side holds other end thinning line at that same point that is under these most extreme loads and leveraging. i think that a Round Turn undermines this effect by giving more friction reduction of remaining force from initial force/ Standing Part to form Anchor Hitch around 'throat' with; thus reducing this firming/ fortifying effect.

Orrrrrrr something like that /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
A Technora Rope? /forum/images/graemlins/shakinghead.gif Thats less stretch than steel cable!

I fear this will be the result /forum/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you have no clue as to how i'm rigging....THERE IS NO FALL FACTOR INVOLVED opr shock load involved.......and to further add to the safety factor, i always run fall arrest bundles (screamers) on my harness.
 
Laz, you're right. I went and looked back at your post and you made no mention of anything other than polyester/nylon cords. I think my brain was following comments like...

[ QUOTE ]
...but you understand the risk of not having a core.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a core/no-core thing. It's not a high-tech fibers/traditional fibers thing. It's what Mark has already said...we just have to keep an eye on the tools we're using and replace as needed. Someone (on this site) once said to me, "know what you're climbing on." Sounds like you have probs with that over there...guys are being ignorant about the ropes they are using.

[ QUOTE ]
i think eyes should be maid with Scaffold Hitches/ Double or Triple Noose; they have shorter bridge if desired, more inspectable than splice, can be done by commoner in field; and with less line...

[/ QUOTE ]

Spydie....I can splice beeline/HRC with about 4-6" of rope..... let's see you tie a knot with that! /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Just pickin' on ya!

love
nick
 
[ QUOTE ]
Spydie....I can splice beeline/HRC with about 4-6" of rope..... let's see you tie a knot with that!

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like rather skimpy bury, no?
But, in any case, at 8mm, one could knot it with #1663 as a noose hitch.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having some custom made Technora eye & eye loops made up to complement the [also Technora] rope

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, sounds like slick on slick--be interested in how those friction hitches
work in this combo (esp. as you slenderize that main line (which needs to
be handdled, too. In some cases, yachters thicken their lines, just for grip).

*kN*
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm having some custom made Technora eye & eye loops made up to complement the [also Technora] rope

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, sounds like slick on slick--be interested in how those friction hitches
work in this combo (esp. as you slenderize that main line (which needs to
be handdled, too. In some cases, yachters thicken their lines, just for grip).

*kN*

[/ QUOTE ]

precisely why i want to rig up a batch of test samples and have them tested on the rope bollards/dynanometer at a local university. (as well as test a cam device for slippage).

:)
 

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