One of our municipals asked us to remove this pin oak where part of the roots were ground to replace the sidewalk. The contractor who damaged the tree had to pay for its removal and replacement. The contractor had brought in an independent ISA consultant to see if the tree could survive 5yrs or better. This was the townships criteria for the tree to say. Not to mention the liability if there were a tree failure. I do beleive he said the was no guarentee it would last. Needless to say we removed the tree. I must say I've seen alot worse root cuts that are still doing fine. Even the contractor openly stated that he has done this many times. It's ashame because here was a perfect oppertunity to curve the concrete away from the tree. Also the guy who was subcontracted for grinding the roots should have known better. He does work for many other tree co's as their sub grinder. Wanted to see what you all thought about whether you would sign off on the trees viability? Also this pin oak was in an area dominated by other pin oaks with a lot of them showing sign of BLS. This pin oak, of course, had no signs of the disease.
TD or not to TD
- Thread starter Cameron
- Start date
- Location
- Great White North
Come on Laddies lets think out of the box on these issues. Being some what involved 
in the municipal arboriculture sector, I understand the liability issue here. We have such a hard time growing Pin Oaks or any oak for that matter up here. I would have had more involvement from the beginning. A crown reduction might have worked to reduce the sail effect of the canopy instead of removal.
Rev
in the municipal arboriculture sector, I understand the liability issue here. We have such a hard time growing Pin Oaks or any oak for that matter up here. I would have had more involvement from the beginning. A crown reduction might have worked to reduce the sail effect of the canopy instead of removal.Rev
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The Minneapolis Park Board who has jurisdiction over boulevard trees in the city works closely with Public Works when PW is rebuilding sidewalks. They have done many creative and tree friendly sites. Lots of curved walk edges. They'll also put in expansion segments around the tree to reduce upheaval in the future. Some root pruning and a bit of grinding too. Like any project that has a tree component the tree aspect needs to be on the table very early in the process. Otherwise perfectly good trees get whacked.
- Location
- under grace
Yo Cam!! part of the problem these days is liability. If someone says the tree is ok and it comes down for any reason, the person who said it was ok is on the hook. It could be 4 years from now in some wicked wind event and the tree owner is going to remember the person saying it was ok.
I have always been conservative when it comes to suggesting removal. I most often come up with alternatives if possible,But i will say the chance of being sued is very real and will make you think twice.
I have always been conservative when it comes to suggesting removal. I most often come up with alternatives if possible,But i will say the chance of being sued is very real and will make you think twice.
I remember reading about rubber sidewalks on the Len Phillips site. Anyone used them?
I found their site: http://rubbersidewalks.com/
They have pics of installations at the bottom of the page. This attached pic looks like it would have fit your situation.
I found their site: http://rubbersidewalks.com/
They have pics of installations at the bottom of the page. This attached pic looks like it would have fit your situation.
Attachments
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
I do beleive he said the was no guarentee it would last. Needless to say we removed the tree.
[/ QUOTE ] If that is all the arborist said, he screwed the city by taking money for a gutless statement. Looks like a relatively small amount of damage. Standard protocol is to count the buttress roots, and if <1/3 are lost then the tree may be worked with.
That bit about getting sued strikes fear into the hearts of consultants who are not competent enough to manage risk.
I do beleive he said the was no guarentee it would last. Needless to say we removed the tree.
[/ QUOTE ] If that is all the arborist said, he screwed the city by taking money for a gutless statement. Looks like a relatively small amount of damage. Standard protocol is to count the buttress roots, and if <1/3 are lost then the tree may be worked with.
That bit about getting sued strikes fear into the hearts of consultants who are not competent enough to manage risk.
- Location
- under grace
i am not easily scared! just making a brother aware of the risks involved in actually rendering a decision. i happen 2 do a bunch of hazard tree eval.
- Location
- Montg. Co. PA
Wanted to see what you all thought about whether you would sign off on the trees viability?
[/ QUOTE ]
Tough to call. You can't see how deep they cut roots to redo the sidewalk. Other than that I'd say that the tree looked in relatively good structural condition.
I don't like removing healthy trees, but liability issues usually rule.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tough to call. You can't see how deep they cut roots to redo the sidewalk. Other than that I'd say that the tree looked in relatively good structural condition.
I don't like removing healthy trees, but liability issues usually rule.
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a relatively small amount of damage. Standard protocol is to count the buttress roots, and if <1/3 are lost then the tree may be worked with.
[/ QUOTE ]
How many roots do you think there were on the street side of the tree?
Or, to put it another way:
How many roots do you think have been lost on the street side of the tree?
Looks like a relatively small amount of damage. Standard protocol is to count the buttress roots, and if <1/3 are lost then the tree may be worked with.
[/ QUOTE ]
How many roots do you think there were on the street side of the tree?
Or, to put it another way:
How many roots do you think have been lost on the street side of the tree?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"the risks involved in actually rendering a decision." are very great, if you are actually rendering decisions! Risk assessments do not call for decisions, they call for reasoned predictions and management options. I don't ever make decisions or even recommendations on someone else's trees unless specifically assigned to, and given enough data and time and everything else needed to be competent at it.
Re the # of roots lost, that is question #1, which can be easily answered by using a shovel or an air tool. Rule #1 in these cases is do NOT believe what the contractor says--see for yourself.
Town lost a sizable asset (and destabilized how many more?) because they did not spend $20 and read the book on reducing infrastructure damage. The taxpayers lose, while the town languishes in the dark ages.
Attached is an anonymized report on a town whose insurer paid out millions.
Re the # of roots lost, that is question #1, which can be easily answered by using a shovel or an air tool. Rule #1 in these cases is do NOT believe what the contractor says--see for yourself.
Town lost a sizable asset (and destabilized how many more?) because they did not spend $20 and read the book on reducing infrastructure damage. The taxpayers lose, while the town languishes in the dark ages.
Attached is an anonymized report on a town whose insurer paid out millions.
- Location
- under grace
GM you had posted that my statement about getting sued struck fear into consultants who are not competent enough to manage risk. It was not my intent to "scare" anyone I am simply trying to expand dialog.
The truth is it really does not matter to a lawyer whether you "render a decision", or make an "assessment" . Their job in any suit would be to drag in all parties. If you have given any kind of opinion they will be requesting your presence should a case arise.Does that mean we should be Fearful ? Certainly not . Just aware! And when we do make "Reasoned predictions" they just need to be well thought out ,and our documentation must be well crafted.
WE are actually on the same side hear .Keep in mind maybe not everyone who reads here is as experienced as you are. They may say something that would get them in trouble. this commentary is more for their benefit .
The truth is it really does not matter to a lawyer whether you "render a decision", or make an "assessment" . Their job in any suit would be to drag in all parties. If you have given any kind of opinion they will be requesting your presence should a case arise.Does that mean we should be Fearful ? Certainly not . Just aware! And when we do make "Reasoned predictions" they just need to be well thought out ,and our documentation must be well crafted.
WE are actually on the same side hear .Keep in mind maybe not everyone who reads here is as experienced as you are. They may say something that would get them in trouble. this commentary is more for their benefit .
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
when we do make "Reasoned predictions" they just need to be well thought out ,and our documentation must be well crafted.
[/ QUOTE ] Absolutely! It's the documentation and analysis that make one competent at assessing and predicting.
I testified in superior court last monday, 20 minutes with my guy then 25 minutes of cross-examination. The judge asked a lot of questions and nodded a lot. It's not that big a deal if you don't voice an opinion that you cannot defend. Simple..and complicated.. as that.
when we do make "Reasoned predictions" they just need to be well thought out ,and our documentation must be well crafted.
[/ QUOTE ] Absolutely! It's the documentation and analysis that make one competent at assessing and predicting.
I testified in superior court last monday, 20 minutes with my guy then 25 minutes of cross-examination. The judge asked a lot of questions and nodded a lot. It's not that big a deal if you don't voice an opinion that you cannot defend. Simple..and complicated.. as that.
- Location
- under grace
VERY WELL STATED !!
