TazLov defective handle

[Danimal]

This TazLoz went directly from the box it was shipped in- onto 11mm snakebite. I made four 15’ ascents/descents,on the way down my fourth descent I heard the crack! This is extremely disturbing to me for this device is one of few allowed in climbing competitions! I’ve put a ton of rope tools through hell and have never had a failure, and this shit happened right out the box.
I will say this the dealer I purchased from immediately shipped me a new one for no cost and ask me to return the defective one.
I’m a little freaked out about this near failure and Don’t feel I can trust this device. What do you all think? Has anyone seen this before? I will contact the manufacture to tell them what happened, and also suggest beefing up the plastic handle.
Thanks
Climb safe

 

[Brocky]

I wonder if it was bad plastic, or the rivet was too tight. Looks like the washer was hit right where the crack is located.

 

[CanadianStan]

I know it was just out of the box ; did you happen to notice anything on first inspection before climbing ?

 

[CanadianStan]

Ps send this information directly to Taz as well.

Was the box completely sealed when you received it ?

 

[TimBr]

This TazLoz went directly from the box it was shipped in- onto 11mm snakebite. I made four 15’ ascents/descents,on the way down my fourth descent I heard the crack! This is extremely disturbing to me for this device is one of few allowed in climbing competitions! I’ve put a ton of rope tools through hell and have never had a failure, and this shit happened right out the box.
I will say this the dealer I purchased from immediately shipped me a new one for no cost and ask me to return the defective one.
I’m a little freaked out about this near failure and Don’t feel I can trust this device. What do you all think? Has anyone seen this before? I will contact the manufacture to tell them what happened, and also suggest beefing up the plastic handle.
Thanks
Climb safe

Extremely disturbing is an understatement. After an incident like that, I would only use that device for work positioning, and not as primary life support. It is a new product, so it might take a few years for them to work the kinks out. Thanks a lot for taking the time and trouble to post the photographs.

Tim

 

[rico]

Bummer about the crack, but how was it on ascent and descent?

 

[islandarb]

I have gone back to my theory. Textiles are the bomb. Mechanicals have some serious cons. I love my roperunners but textiles just make more sense for treework. My dumb ass 2 cents.

 

[Danimal]

I know it was just out of the box ; did you happen to notice anything on first inspection before climbing ?

The taz lov2 box it came in was closed but it was flimsy cardboard, the outer shipping box was in good shape no damage. I inspected the device and didn’t notice anything off, but when I recieved the new one and started really looking into the plastic handle there are imperfections everywhere. Maybe this is to be expected in plastic molding, the thing that keeps running through my head is plastic why plastic yeah I know bring down the weight but what about quality. I will never use this thing in production tree work!

 

[Danimal]

Bummer about the crack, but how was it on ascent and descent?

This device is the quickest thing on and off rope, well the Akimbo May be faster but man does it tend like a dream on ascent. It wasn’t very smooth on descent kind of jumpy but I only used it four times so this might have smoothed out with time. I can’t trust this device and will never climb on this device without a backup eight or HMS biner on my saddle which is common practice for me anyway.

 

[vertigo]

The surface of the handle right near the crack has "blooming" marks where the molten plastic has flowed and slowed around the resistance in the mould shape that forms the depression the rivet sits in. This is a manufacturing defect, there are ways in making injection moulds to form plastic parts that prevent the molten material having to join up with itself inside the mould in critical places. I'm glad it's gone back to Taz cos they will recognise it and maybe rework the mould or the amount of material being pumped in or the temperature or the material, or the rejection rate, assembly technique, lots more variables and options. The more they see the more likely they are to fix it. Metal diecast parts have the same issues as do metal forged parts made from pellets or powder.
The break looks like it didn't compromise the rope holding function of the device, just the rope releasing function, so would be same limitation applied to any other handle device in descending mode if the handle broke. Carrying a HMS is a good solution, as useful as a spare prusik.

Vertigo

 

[Danimal]

Ps send this information directly to Taz as well.

Was the box completely sealed when you received it ?

Reply from Tazlov

Hello Daniel,
Many thanks for contacting us, and we are really sorry for your desagrement.
We are already on work with Corey for providing you with a new tool. We are also aware about your discussions about the handle failure on your tree-buzz forum.
We can also thank you to be so objective, detailed and without anger.
We can tell you several things, added to the obvious fact than we have to replace the tool to you, under warranty.
We are implemented on resolving this failure, wich has no direct safety issue but makes not work any more the tool, plus an important desagrement for the users.
This handle failure happens 3/1000 times (3 per thousand). We are searching with our plastic purchaser the causes wich are not totaly clear regarding molten material, pellets, mould , temperature, hydrotreatment. We are also trying new material.
So we appreciate if you ship the device back to us so that we can check it, investigate the problem , fix this and improve our quality level.
You can share our answer on your forum, we will also try to do it by our own.
Many thanks again
Best regards
Pascal

 

[rico]

Can’t ask for much more than that.

 

[JeffGu]

Can’t ask for much more than that.

Absolutely. Creating flawless products is the goal, not the reality. What you do when shit happens is a lot more important than whether or not shit happened.

 

[CanadianStan]

They’re obviously being proactive about it, and doing all the right things ...

But does anyone else feel like 3/1000 is a bit high for a failure right for a handle ?

For a product that passed testing and is certified around the world this seems like pretty poor quality.

Can you imagine people’s faces if the handle ok one of these broke in the middle of an ITCC masters climb? The reputation would be pretty ruined

What if the handle breaks while youre getting attacked by hornets ?

 

[JeffGu]

You're worried about a .3% failure rate happening during a hornet attack? I'm guessing that on a per-climb basis, hornet attacks are even lower than .3% which puts the odds pretty low. I think you'd be better off buying lottery tickets and worrying about not winning.

I know that brake failure accounts for about 5% of accidents in the U.S. but then, there's about 5 million accidents per year. Low failure rate, but they've had a LOT longer to get the bugs worked out. The failure rate was much higher until the dreaded government insisted on fail-safe measures on modern vehicles.

I'd be curious to see how many tree accidents occur with corded solutions, as opposed to mechanicals. I have a feeling it's more about which one you're comfortable with than which one is inherently safer. I've never glazed a rope with a ZigZag enough for it to slip, but I've done it with a hitchclimber setup a few times. I suspect they're about the same on safety, and that getting careless or stupid is the biggest culprit. Being human, we're going to do that on occasion.

 

[CanadianStan]

You're worried about a .3% failure rate happening during a hornet attack? I'm guessing that on a per-climb basis, hornet attacks are even lower than .3% which puts the odds pretty low. I think you'd be better off buying lottery tickets and worrying about not winning.

I know that brake failure accounts for about 5% of accidents in the U.S. but then, there's about 5 million accidents per year. Low failure rate, but they've had a LOT longer to get the bugs worked out. The failure rate was much higher until the dreaded government insisted on fail-safe measures on modern vehicles.

I'd be curious to see how many tree accidents occur with corded solutions, as opposed to mechanicals. I have a feeling it's more about which one you're comfortable with than which one is inherently safer. I've never glazed a rope with a ZigZag enough for it to slip, but I've done it with a hitchclimber setup a few times. I suspect they're about the same on safety, and that getting careless or stupid is the biggest culprit. Being human, we're going to do that on occasion.

There have been weeks where I got stung every day for 5 days straight ... but those are the times when you’re going to torque your device more than ever !

But seriously, the staff actually threw out a number ... doesn’t it seem kind of high ? For a piece of life support equipment I wouldn’t expect a handle failure in any situation when I’m paying $300 for a device, same ballpark as other devices.

I’ve never had issues with mechanicals or textiles in the past ... less than ideal with certain rope combinations, etc but nothing that broke.

 

[JeffGu]

Yeah, neither one bothers me... I've had no failures that actually scared me. Baldfaced Hornets aren't common, here. That, and I look the trees over good, because paper wasps and honeybees ARE common, here. Maybe not as dangerous, but I got stung nearly to death painting a lighthouse when I was about 19. Don't ask about what a lighthouse is doing in Nebraska... we have no shortage of loons, here. If I lived somewhere that had enough hornets to be a problem all the time, I'd just move. Never been stung by one of those nasty buggers, but I did get close enough to some to realize that they aren't much afraid of anything, and that swatting at them probably isn't going to impress them a whole lot.

I don't actually think that number is very high, for a plastic part that gets torqued on all the time. Getting the production techniques down to where that number gets smaller can take time. And, they really have to get them out there being used for some things to actually show up... I mean, say you test 500 of the things to death... you could easily never see the problem until they're out there in the field.

Any way you look at it, they at least do seem to care, and want to sort it out. Personally, I think having a thin aluminum plate molded into the plastic handle would keep it from breaking in a way that stops you from using it... but that's just a guess. Might be harder to do than I think... I don't know much about injection molding.

 

[CanadianStan]

Yeah, neither one bothers me... I've had no failures that actually scared me. Baldfaced Hornets aren't common, here. That, and I look the trees over good, because paper wasps and honeybees ARE common, here. Maybe not as dangerous, but I got stung nearly to death painting a lighthouse when I was about 19. Don't ask about what a lighthouse is doing in Nebraska... we have no shortage of loons, here. If I lived somewhere that had enough hornets to be a problem all the time, I'd just move. Never been stung by one of those nasty buggers, but I did get close enough to some to realize that they aren't much afraid of anything, and that swatting at them probably isn't going to impress them a whole lot.

I don't actually think that number is very high, for a plastic part that gets torqued on all the time. Getting the production techniques down to where that number gets smaller can take time. And, they really have to get them out there being used for some things to actually show up... I mean, say you test 500 of the things to death... you could easily never see the problem until they're out there in the field.

Any way you look at it, they at least do seem to care, and want to sort it out. Personally, I think having a thin aluminum plate molded into the plastic handle would keep it from breaking in a way that stops you from using it... but that's just a guess. Might be harder to do than I think... I don't much about injection molding.

Email them and tell them

I do agree, they’re being proactive. Seems like most companies (Petzl, Black diamond, etc) are in the same boat and I’ve been really happy to stand behind companies that back up their product.

I think Kong is the only company that comes to mind that gave arbs the middle finger

 

[rico]

I have gone back to my theory. Textiles are the bomb. Mechanicals have some serious cons. I love my roperunners but textiles just make more sense for treework. My dumb ass 2 cents.

Once again I have to agree with Swing. All these new gadgets are super cool and shiny, but for me nothing is sweeter and smoother than a well dialed in Rope Wrench or Hitch Climber setup. It is an end game setup for many of us, and more than this old hack could ever ask for.