Switching between SRS & MRS....

[Zebco Kid]

Hello All,

It's been some time since I've posted. The drought here in the west really stressed the trees, then the rains came, and stressed them all the more. The conditions (as a recreational climber) made me nervous, so I paused for a bit.

Now I'm back into it, and the curiosity is flaring up. It's good to be back in the canopy!

So...I have a question. I'm curious about the various techniques for switching between SRS and MRS.

I climb with a Hitchhiker XF, and really love it. I've done plenty of MRS the way one might expect. Almost all of my SRS has been with tying a canopy anchor. I haven't really figured out how to go back and forth, and I'm curious about how to move fluidly between the two.

I think I remember seeing some technique where someone tied an alpine butterfly on a MRS setup, then went SRT from there. If my recollection is correct, it was pretty cool.

Anyway, do you have any good video links showing this type of interplay between the two modes of climbing? If so, would you be so kind as to share them?

Thanks for you input and patience as I get back up to speed.

 

[27RMT0N]

Good to see you back @Zebco Kid, been a while indeed.

Honestly I don't really understand why people switch between the two in most cases. I think it just comes from being unfamiliar and uncomfortable with SRT. Unless you are in big (100'+ trees), the only time I do is if I'm setting a line from the ground that I can't hit with the BigShot and am alone. Then I'll canopy-tie from the ground at the highest possible height, use the climb-line and flip-line to advance since I don't have help, and DRT down simply for retrieve-ability without having to set 100' of retrieval-tail.

My STRONG preference is to shoot a line setting a base-tie, and SRT the whole tree. In 95% of the time, it is better and more efficient. But I also use 300' lines and air cannons as necessary.

 

[Zebco Kid]

27RMTON,

Thank you for the generous reply.

I know the motivations are different for the recreational climbers. My main goal in my climbing, other than the joy of being in beautiful places with awesome people is to be versatile - to be fluent with techniques, approaches, gear, and the tree. It feels very much like a language, and I wan to be fluent moving through the tree.

ZK

 

[Friedrich]

i think switching from ddrt to drt how zebco mentioned is a great way to incorporate srt into a mostly ddrt climb.
i hope my drawing makes it clearer..

 

[Brocky]

The “Secret Weapon” is a way to ascend SRT and switch when aloft, a low friction ring could be used instead of the pulley for less weight.

 

[moss]

Before multicenders came into being I would access tall conifers by ascending a basal anchored static line usually with cammed ascenders, and trailing a long lanyard (or short rope). The length of that second rope would depend on the size of the tree. 60' was a good length, I would leave the basal anchored line in place and advance above using the "short rope" in MRS mode, alternating with my lanyard. I still do this except my short rope is used SRS as well ;-) Everyone's climbing needs/requirements are different but I rarely use MRS, usually just with my short lanyard for a specific move where it makes sense. Sometimes MRS can be an excellent way to exit a tree after climbing on an SRS canopy anchor. Basically be as creative as you want to be, switch to MRS when it makes sense, I wouldn't force it though just to solve a theoretical problem, find the smoothest way to move around the tree.
-AJ

 

[misfit]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you still have the same question you had before you went on vacation. Did those answers not help?

Tangled up in my SRS & MRS approach...

Good evening. Tow days of climbing where I began with SRS. I'm a bit confused on how to advance once I'm in the canopy next to my TIP. With the SRS, I'm confused as to how to advance to another limb a distance away. When I climb MRS, I simply lanyard in, then throw a new bag and or the rope to...

www.treebuzz.com

 

[islandarb]

Boy oh boy...... I go up SRT, move around SRT, come down SRT. Wash repeat, wash repeat.... 11 years have past.

 

[Zebco Kid]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you still have the same question you had before you went on vacation. Did those answers not help?

Tangled up in my SRS & MRS approach...

Good evening. Tow days of climbing where I began with SRS. I'm a bit confused on how to advance once I'm in the canopy next to my TIP. With the SRS, I'm confused as to how to advance to another limb a distance away. When I climb MRS, I simply lanyard in, then throw a new bag and or the rope to...

www.treebuzz.com

Misfit,

I believe you are correct. I apologize for returning to my confusion without checking past conversations. I'm somewhere between lazy, long COVID, and senility.

I'll do better.

Thank you.

 

[moss]

Misfit,

I believe you are correct. I apologize for returning to my confusion without checking past conversations. I'm somewhere between lazy, long COVID, and senility.

I'll do better.

Thank you.

Yer good! It is true that no question is a dumb question, not to mention it gives us all a chance to blah blah blah some more.

I have a good friend who started rec climbing around the same time I did 2004 or so. We both started doubled rope on a Blake’s Hitch. We still climb together, he’s still climbing 1/2” Safety Blue 16-strand with a Blake’s. I’ve shown him everything and he’s not interested. It’s a beautiful thing, as long as a climber keeps safe they can climb any damn way they want to.
-AJ

 

[Zebco Kid]

Moss,

I've been involved in countless hobbies. I consider myself one of the world's most experienced rookies. Tried many things, not great at any.

It's always been curious to me how many hobbies pull you in with equipment: fly fishing, climbing, hunting, cycling, motorcycling, etc. Then...the experienced people frequently return to the bare bones for the beauty of the activity.

So, the fly fisherman goes out with one fly and a bamboo rod, the climber goes with cambium protection, a harness, and a rope, the hunter goes old school with fewer than a dozen decoys, and 7 shells (a limit), the cyclist goes with a single speed, and the motorcyclist goes with a dual purpose 250 cc.

As my climbing hobby has continued, I (like many) have a huge box of gear I'll never use again. Each time I put on my saddle (or should I say load myself down with...), I think, I ought to lighten this bugger. Then, I get in the canopy, and I'm glad I have the cool stuff to make things happen.

Anyway...interesting to me.

 

[Shadowscape]

I dabble with all the latest SRS gear as it comes out. I enjoy playing with it, but when I am serious about working, I always resort to DRT. I'm more comfortable with it and it is easier on my legs. I use a foot ascender and a knee ascender just as you would with SRS climbing, and I don't go up as fast, but with less effort. Weak legs in my old age. I end up doing redirects with double sheeve pulleys and although that also takes a bit longer to do, it seems to always work out fine for me.
Each has to find what works best for them and go with it. After I play with the latest SRS gear I end up selling it to someone who will use it more than I for a fraction of what I paid for it. Keeps me up to date on what is out there and makes someone else happy to get a good deal.
I will on occasion run a modified SRS set up once in the canopy that is not at all legit in the eyes of the ANSI police people. But no one is watching me work, and it is safe in my mind to do so because I know the limitations of the equipment and how to safely use it.
Do your thing.
And you really can't beat a 250cc Penton for off road fun. Probably don't make that one anymore.

 

[misfit]

If I understand your problem correctly, then it sounds to me like the key lies in the way you set your canopy anchor. There are 2 basic ways to install your canopy anchor. You can use your throwline to pull the rope over the limb at least a few feet, stop there, tie an alpine butterfly or whatever in the other leg of the rope at your level, attach a quickie, delta link or whatever to the butterfly and capture the throwline in it, then continue pulling your rope down through that connector until the rope cinches at your TIP. At least a few feet of rope on the climbing side will be on the ground, and you will climb from that end of the rope toward the middle of the rope at the TIP. The other leg is used for retrieval, and the other end of your rope is at the bottom of your rope bag. In the end, the middle of the rope is at the TIP, and both ends of the rope are on the ground. This is fine as long as you don't need to advance your TIP.

The other way to do it is to use your throwline to pull the rope over the limb all the way back to the ground without doing anything else and then tie the cinch point (alpine butterfly, running bowline, whatever) at the END of your rope. Include the other leg of the rope in the cinch and pull it up until the rope is cinched on the limb at your TIP. Now it is the END of the rope that is at your TIP. Of course, before you do that, you need to attach either a separate retrieval line to the end of the rope or, better, attach the other end of your climbing rope to the end to make a big loop. This means that you will now be climbing from the middle of the rope toward the end, so your climbing device/hitch/whatever is now moving up in the direction you want when you advance your TIP. This puts both ends of the rope at the TIP and makes advancing the TIP much easier. When you reach your TIP, tie yourself in, untie the canopy anchor, and now you have the end of the rope ready to advance to another limb, and your climbing device is already set to go in the correct direction. Attach the retrieval rope to your harness to carry along with you so you can reset it for retrieval at your final TIP. If you used the other end of your climbing rope for the retrieval leg, you can use it to make a separate MRS climbing system. Just add a hitch, and you're ready to go.

 

[Zebco Kid]

Misfit.

Thank you....I'm super visual, and you painted the picture perfectly! You should be a Technical Writer.

 

[Burrapeg]

. . . If you used the other end of your climbing rope for the retrieval leg, you can use it to make a separate MRS climbing system. Just add a hitch, and you're ready to go.

I think Mumford did a video about keeping an entire second system on the tail of your rope, for occasions where you might need it. I got a second ZZ in a trade after I saw that on youTube and have often used it on the tail for moving around MRS once I am at height, in situations where my lanyard was not long enough for sideways positioning. I normally always go up SRT with foot and knee ascenders at first but I really like the control of MRS when limb walking or moving around the canopy.

 

[Friedrich]

I think Mumford did a video about keeping an entire second system on the tail of your rope, for occasions where you might need it. I got a second ZZ in a trade after I saw that on youTube and have often used it on the tail for moving around MRS once I am at height, in situations where my lanyard was not long enough for sideways positioning. I normally always go up SRT with foot and knee ascenders at first but I really like the control of MRS when limb walking or moving around the canopy.

i try to avoid that but i also try to climb on the shortest ropes possible. havin a belly of rope can be dangerous and you might loose your way to exit the tree quickly. i much prefer a second short rope

 

[islandarb]

i try to avoid that but i also try to climb on the shortest ropes possible. havin a belly of rope can be dangerous and you might loose your way to exit the tree quickly. i much prefer a second short rope

That would be a no no in my book. Using my tail for more than 1 QUICK MANOEVER. I hardly need my tail but hey it can be useful at times.

 

[Acerxharlowii]

I think for removals it’s beneficial to ascend srs and switch over to mrs. For pruning though I climb srs with a second system. Up to a couple months ago I was carrying 40’ of rope with my hook and would use one side for a mrs system, especially for pruning. However, I grew tired of carrying up the dmm 6liter pouch with rope and hook all the time. Now, I make a second system (mrs) on the tail of my rope before I ascend and attach it to my saddle or put it together in the canopy. I always like having a second system besides the srs. Furthermore I can attach my rescusender and make a secret weapon on my srs line and use the tail for a mrs system that way as well.

 

[Friedrich]

I think for removals it’s beneficial to ascend srs and switch over to mrs. For pruning though I climb srs with a second system. Up to a couple months ago I was carrying 40’ of rope with my hook and would use one side for a mrs system, especially for pruning. However, I grew tired of carrying up the dmm 6liter pouch with rope and hook all the time. Now, I make a second system (mrs) on the tail of my rope before I ascend and attach it to my saddle or put it together in the canopy. I always like having a second system besides the srs. Furthermore I can attach my rescusender and make a secret weapon on my srs line and use the tail for a mrs system that way as well.

i enjoy the safety/convenience of a short srt rope for removals, very likely to be able to reach the ground, unlikely getting chipped and nobody on the ground needs to organize my tail.

 

[Bendroctanus]

SRS, SRT, MRS, DdRT, these are all valuable tools to have in one’s the tool box, I was taught. No one tree or job or situation is the same. But there are more one way to skin a cat. It is good and wise to keep an open mind, or an open tool box, when looking, surveying a job.
The problem solving aspect is something I love about this industry. I seek to expand my tool box to keep addressing these problems more safely and efficiently.