Stein Dual 2 Trees 1 Day Part 2

Winch · Feb 26, 2011

I wanted to put the 2 trees in one post, but I labeled some of the photos the same, which led to some problems with posting. So, here's the second tree we did work on yesterday with the Stein Dual.

It is a large beech tree that lost a major leader. Couldn't just cut the branch/leader, or it would have messed up the base of the tree bad.

This was probably pushing the 500kg WLL of the preservation mounting option of the Dual, but I just can't help trying out new things hard.

We used the bollard on the right to suspend a floating block. We used the bollard on the left for the rigging line. 5/8" stable braid was used for both purposes.

The traffic cone is wedged behind the ratchet strap to further protect the beech tree's thin bark. The after photos at the end show that the Dual did no damage to the trunk.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/269071-r7.jpg

southsoundtree · Feb 26, 2011

Nice pics on both trees, Winch. Thanks for posting.

whiz · Feb 27, 2011

Maaaan that is excellent use of that piece of equipment. NO air time at all just brain power. Great job!

ward · Mar 2, 2011

I've never used the Stein and I am curious about the lever arm. Is that used to crank up on the piece? One guy pulls the lever, the other guy sucks slack? Is that correct?

If so, aren't you fighting the friction around the bollard? What is the lifting power of that lever arm?

I just don't see what it is about this device that is worth the $1,200 price tag. Looks like you could get the same results from 2 port-a-wraps--and for a lot less money.

Winch · Mar 2, 2011

Ward,
There is no doubt you can make similar devices by putting other devices together. You can use a 5:1 above a POW and lift as much as the lever arm.

No you aren't fighting the bollard - you pull down on the lever arm, and the other man (or the same man, it's possible just like slack-tending on the hobbs is possible one-man) pulls out the excess slack.

It can lift several hundred pounds, and much more by adding 3:1 or 5:1.

It's easy to say that another, less expensive device could do the same thing. You can use a handsaw to cut a 5" limb. Would you want to?

ward · Mar 2, 2011

I guess I wouldn't be interested in downgrading, so much as upgrading...to a GRCS, for instance. There, only one man winds the self tailing winch, and you have instant one man control of up to 2,000 lbs.

Economists talk about 'productivity' as being grounded in technical developments and skills.

Isn't the single man device--albeit initially more expensive--payed off in full very quickly by productivity savings?

And, yes, I do believe you will be fighting friction around that bollard. There is a great thread on the physics of the capstan equation. When you suck slack on the Harken winch of the GRCS, you turn the capstan with a pleasing whirring sound of bearings doing their work.

Winch · Mar 2, 2011

Sorry Ward, you aren't fighting enough friction to produce any meaningful loss. I understand what you are trying to say, that the man pulling down is fighting the man tending slack, but as long as that man tending slack isn't giving it his all, it isn't enough to worry about.

I use the GRCS on a monthly basis. I am one for trying out all the tools, and eventually, having all the tools. The GRCS is good at lifting, sure, you can lift up to 2000 lbs with that "pleasing whirring sound." I like that sound as much as the clickity-clack of the Hobbs. I just don't like the idea on the Good of switching out when I'm ready to bomb some big stuff.

Most of the jobs I do involve very little lifting, and a lot of very heavy butt-hitching at the end of the job. The very little lifting I do on a weekly basis is like those pictures - lift to secure, rather than lift to stand up a piece, like many videos of the Good show.

All lowering devices have their place. This device is in no way inferior to either of those other two mentioned. It is just different. Another tool in the box.

Reg · Mar 2, 2011

Winch, sorry to cut in, but I feel it would be irresponsible of me not to, such is the extent that Wards statement has unerved me.

[ QUOTE ]

Looks like you could get the same results from 2 port-a-wraps--and for a lot less money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Ward

Lifting is just one aspect of rigging, and was of relative low priority in designing the Stein LD range to be honest.

The portawrap is a superb, compact, user friendly LD that gives great value for money no doubt. But do you really believe that 2 porty's would offer the same performance and margin of safety as offered by the Dual?

Due you think the Dual's design and construction (60lbs weight) was out of pure chance, or perhaps there was some reasoning and experience behind it?

Heres a short video I put together for another recent thread here on treebuzz about dynamic loading....another aspect of tree-rigging, one which I actually made a high priority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqJs7YYnMo

Ignore the text that pops up from time to time, some of the clips came from promotional stuff so it wasn't possible to remove.

I have many more video's and photo's if you're further interested, different techniques again. Just ask. Thanks

ward · Mar 2, 2011

Reg, I liked that video a lot. There's some good work there--and I had my aha moment when I saw the double roping. That would come in real handy on very large stems!

Ah, you're right, Winch, every device has its place. Just think that the GRCS is really superior for lifting...

Thanks for the post.

marlinspiker · Mar 3, 2011

i think ill be buying one of these soon

ArboristMaximus · Mar 3, 2011

Winch, Great use of both equipment and brainpower. Very well thought in regards to protecting the tree. As far as the cone behind the ratchet strap, I mooched a piece of old conveyor belt rubber as a back pad for preservation use with my rope brake. For your use maybe an old piece of snowplow wing rubber would work as well.

Reg · Mar 3, 2011

[ QUOTE ]

Reg, I liked that video a lot. There's some good work there--and I had my aha moment when I saw the double roping. That would come in real handy on very large stems!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ward, heres an old TB thread using one of the smaller prorotypes, different kind of double roping in parts. Note: this ground crew had never used the device before. Pardon me again winch. Did you get my pm?

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=187233&page=12&fpart=1&vc=1

[ QUOTE ]

Just think that the GRCS is really superior for lifting...

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more Ward, its out on its own for that kind of work.

Winch · Mar 3, 2011

No sweat,Reg, I appreciate the input and dialogue here.

Yes, got your PM, I'll reply later today, thanks.

Thanks for the kind words, AMaximus. I strive to plan out operations to not be surprised. Surprises in our business can be seriously bad.

lolerUK · Mar 8, 2011

it is far quicker to rig & de rig your rigging lines on a bollard like reg's devoce than it is on a port-a-wrap. Using a 5-1 block & tackle on a system will give you a much higher MA than the lever on reg's device but i beleive that it was only designed to pre-tension your rigging lines as opposed to be used as a winch. The GRCS is an awsome winch, very quick & efficient but it costs a fair bit more & you do have to pay out for the wearable parts every now & then.

Reg · Mar 8, 2011

[ QUOTE ]
Using a 5-1 block & tackle on a system will give you a much higher MA than the lever on reg's device

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true Mike. The lever has 3 options, Winch is using the first. Come see me at the AA show if you get any free time.

lolerUK · Mar 8, 2011

will do, will hopefully have a dynameter too!

Reg · Mar 9, 2011

[ QUOTE ]
will do, will hopefully have a dynameter too!

[/ QUOTE ]

Your eyes alone will probably suffice Mike but bring your dynometer anyway, Id like to take a look at that.

ClimbHigh · Mar 9, 2011

So at what point did you think your camera might have been destroyed in that below the lowering device view?

I was cringing the whole time it was headed down!!

landlubber2 · Mar 9, 2011

Nice, first time I see one in action. 1200.00 really isn't that bad. could probably pay for itself in a handful of rigging jobs. Play safe!

Reg · Mar 9, 2011

[ QUOTE ]
So at what point did you think your camera might have been destroyed in that below the lowering device view?

I was cringing the whole time it was headed down!!

[/ QUOTE ]

With Patrick running the ropes it was never in doubt....cameras are not cheap