Starting A New Climber

roxy

roxy

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What does everybody do regarding gear when starting a new climber? Do you give them the old school and make them "earn" more evolved saddles, etc. Is there value in climbing on a Blake's hitch for 3 months and then switching? Looking for advice. We've done it one way up until now, but perhaps it's time to have a fresh perspective.
 
roxy,

The "new" eye-to-eye hitches are a big improvement, but I'd start a new climber out with just a saddle, rope and lanyard tied with a Becketts bend. No split-tail, no 'biners, trad tie in.

The value in this is that the climber is not a prisoner to his hardware, and understands basic Ddrt dynamics and will always have that concept in reserve if required. But two successful ascents, one body thrusting, one foot-locking and a couple TIP advancements in the tree and I'd be happy to move them along.

Northwind
 
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roxy,

The "new" eye-to-eye hitches are a big improvement, but I'd start a new climber out with just a saddle, rope and lanyard tied with a Becketts bend. No split-tail, no 'biners, trad tie in.

The value in this is that the climber is not a prisoner to his hardware, and understands basic Ddrt dynamics and will always have that concept in reserve if required. But two successful ascents, one body thrusting, one foot-locking and a couple TIP advancements in the tree and I'd be happy to move them along.

Northwind

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x2!
 
all of the above. The apprenticeship training I did started with basic gear then once you had demonstrated the ability to climb with this you could move on to more current systems.
 
I think you have gotten good advice so far. Start with the old school basics and just let the guy advance at what ever rate or time frame that he and yourself feel good about. The fact you even know more of the advanced technics is a huge bonus for the new guy. Alot of people are not so lucky. The eye to eye hitches and micro pulleys are fabulos and I use them every day and even make my own but a guy has to know the basics first what if he drops his hitch one day and no one is around whats he gonna do.
 
Northwind's given you top notch advice Roxy, right on the button in my opinion.

I would only add that the use of some type of cambium saving device also be taught to a beginning climber right from the get go too.

It's also a trait that will distinguish him from the run of the mill climbers wielding chainsaws around.

It's very common old school traditional practice to restrict a beginner to using a handsaw only to trim with during his entire first year, a very heavy one towards the end to help build the arm strength stamina needed for the chainsaw he earns at year's end.

jomoco
 
You could really make them earn it and show them the bowline on a bight and tie in that way to make them appreciate their saddle. That's just a dick move though. I was a teaching assistant for a climbing class and we worked things in slowly. First week we introduced the knots and then the next week you got your saddle and lanyard and hardhat and showed how to use a monkey's fist or as I like to call it the opossum. Then after advancing and retying and all that we introduced throw weights and split tails. And eventually towards the end of the semester we would intro eye to eyes.
 
I new someone that wouldn't allow their students to climb until they could tie all their knots correctly and then a blake's hitch behind their back, jumping on one foot with their eyes closed and one handed. Not only was it a jerk-ish thing to do, but it also showed that the student was dedicated.
 
All the above and climb with them. That way you will be able to see and correct any mistakes they make immediately and also be able to show them why and where they are wrong. It is awfully tough to se a mistied blakes when they are thirty or forty feet above you. This also allows you to rearrl see their potential and encpourage them to movr ahead. This business is tough work and committment is an improtant part of the training.
 
I start off new climbers with all of my gear. The nice saddle, the uni, the pantin, the nice rope. I have them climb like this a couple of time then I take it away and teach them old school.

It's important that they know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, a very expensive and difficult tunnel. It is also important to evolve into the new climbing systems and set ups so that they can understand how they work.

We've got a new (well, actually he is 40) climber that is just learning how to climb without spikes after spiking everything for 21 years. His first time out I have him the goods. Uni, foot ascender, hand ascender, ran him through a ring and ring. He kicked his way up 20 feet, worked the lower portion of the oak tree then ascended down. That was the last times he has ever seen my uni.

The next time, gave him my beeline eye n eye, my extra hitch climber, my poison ivy line and foot ascender. He worked a smaller maple.

Next time. I had him climb on his true blue, blakes hitch. Made him climb like he had for 20+ years but without the spikes.

A week later, he owned a new eye n eye split tail, hitch climber and foot ascender. Next week he's buying a cougar saddle.

This is a bit different though. He had almost more experience climbing then I have living. He knows the oldschool ways. I thought that I'd show him what advances had been made since and let him decide what was best for him.
 
Hopefully he has a thing or two to teach you as well Sir. A fellow I work with claims 25yrs experience...I just don't see it. I made a few attempts at introducing some different concepts...unsuccessfully. Sounds like your new guy, since he was willing, might work out.
 
We hired a climber last week, he had 8 years experiance climbing with spikes and topping. He said he was in real need of a steady job and understood that we do not spike or top. He worked Thursday, took off Friday and quit Monday. He lasted one day....one freakin day. He said he felt like he had to learn it all over again??!!??!! Sad, he would have been a damn good climber for a good company once he took the dang spikes off....freakin SPIKES..I hate em' just flat out hate em'. Anyways, I would start a new climber out with what is avalible today. Old is just that, OLD. I come from the the old school days and lived it, just never want to go back to it. I mean if you think giving a new climber old school gear would teach him something....why not just give him a old cross cut saw and have em' cut a few limbs with that....now thats OLD school!!!

fig1.jpg
 
I like the smaller handsaw on the upper right.

Looks about right for big deadwooding!

Find a young co-ordinated guy with a good power to weight ratio that likes heighths!

They're out there somewhere.

jomoco
 
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This is a bit different though. He had almost more experience climbing then I have living. He knows the oldschool ways. I thought that I'd show him what advances had been made since and let him decide what was best for him

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PPHHHFFFTTTTT what a crock of shot. Sounds like yo uhired a moron just to make you look better. Tell Ryan to spend some money and he could get a climber that'll run around you all day long.
 
All good advise but i would tell them as well
to get a basic throw line kit (cube,string,2xthrowbags with bottom tags,2xsmall biners, 1 large biner)and

practice - selecting and getting a good TIP where they can work most of or the whole tree.

Practice - stance and swing rate,length and release point judgment for accuracy

Practice - line manipulation.

or for the advanced guys get some hints from Kyudo
 

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Thanks, all. In the past we've provided SuperDeluxe gear for "promising" climbers. And these guys have become quite good, but some gear theft, employee turnover (not related, thank goodness!) has me thinking that perhaps a new climber is just fine on some less Deluxe gear. But I'm struggling with the "you gotta earn it" attitude. There's no sense in going backwards just for the sake of being a Jacka**. I just want 'em to have a sense of respect.
R
 
From what I have seen if this is a new climber( starting with a clean slate) you can go as fast as he is willing to learn. Some people have a gift, and others have to work hard to get the easy stuff. If they say they come from another Co. and that they were the best there you should see what the kind of standards that Co. has. You are only as good as the person that teaches you. It is up to the climber to push himself to learn from other places like treebuzz!
 
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