Snap cutting large wood?

Is it safe how he did it, or am I just being over protective?

  • He's fine, your a jerk

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • better give him a talking to.

    Votes: 9 81.8%
  • Total voters
    11
B

Bimmer

After searching archives and Ansi standards, I have had to re-open this account. To ask a question

Heres the situation, just recently a tree worker got crushed in a bucket using a snap cut, (shelf cut, barbers chair, etc) on a large 8' piece of Red oak. Broken shoulder, titanium elbow now, out of tree work, all that jazz. (Worked with him personally at one point)

Now today I witness the same thing on a hemlock, except no bucket truck. To me this isn't a safe pratice for these reasons.

1. You can't get a good push on it from the gaffs with it being that large.

2. His position he was in, forced him to first pull the wood towards him to start the snap.

3. He couldn't get leverage enough because there was no rope tied to the top, and he couldn't get his hands over the midpoint.

To be honest if for a few moments it looked like the whole world was ending from my point of view. I heard it snap as he pulled it towards him, I saw it sway in a different direction then it was intended and I held my breath as it rotated away landing safely. To me, we dodged a bullet, to him it's just what we do. As far as the snap cuts are concerned, I don't dislike them. I use them every day. But not on such a large pieces and always make sure I can get my hands or a rope on top of the pieces Im cutting.

Now the useless stuff. I was on treebuzz 11 years ago, I heard of it and since I have been only climbing for a year I could use any help. But sadly stopped reading about 1 year after that. Now that I'm a 12 year veteran climber teaching younger climbers these other questions are arising. So if I can get some advice, I'd honestly like to approach this guy with a solid don't do that again, rather than pulling a body out of a tree.
 
I'd say without any mechanical advantage, ie; felling wedge, pace cut, or a pull rope your counting on gravity being cooperative at that moment. I find it to rarely be the case. In a bucket you can do an incomplete snap cut and boom back up and push the top. 8' gives you enough leverage to snap a pretty big hinge.
 
I would say always have the bottem cut the way you want the wood to go. Especially with big wood, you don't want to snap it towards yourself. And trying to push large pieces over the ledge left from the snap makes bad things happen. How big is too big always depends on the situation and the persons experience. Untill people have enough experience to know what they can handle in what situation, use a notch, rope etc.. for large cuts. Also the taller the piece of wood being snap cut the harder it is to control.
 
I often use what I call a " notched break-cut". I start by cutting a narrow notch in the intended direction of fall. Move up a couple inches and make my back cut, bypassing the narrow notch. This allows for more directional control on larger pieces. I've experienced problems with the traditional break cut on large wood when the piece breaks free, rests on the lower "shelf" and then tips in an unintended direction. This is an effective technique when working from a lift, but in my opinion a climber should add some sort of mechanical advantage when tipping large spar pieces.
 
I only snap cut pieces that I know I can handle, usually to throw the chunks clear of flowers etc. at the base of the tree. Why would you snap cut bigger pieces at all? To save a few seconds?
 
I use snap cuts all the time, probably more than I should. And if it's a strong wood and standing pretty close to vertical, I'll cut one 8' long. But here's the thing: I might do that on a 20" dia. stem when I'm in the bucket and can boom up and push on the very top edge. Climbing? Maybe a 4" dia. piece, max. Certainly nothing much bigger than that, with that low of a push point. What does this guy think, the 10 extra seconds it would take him to make an actual felling notch are going to make an actual difference? Even if he took down the entire stick this way, in 8' lengths, that's what, 10 cuts. Let's see 10 seconds X 10 cuts, that's 100 seconds. Wow, a minute and a half. Bet it's going to take the ambulance a lot longer than that to get there when he crushes himself.
 
Boomslang said:
I only snap cut pieces that I know I can handle, usually to throw the chunks clear of flowers etc. at the base of the tree. Why would you snap cut bigger pieces at all? To save a few seconds?
Click to expand...

Yes it was an add on tree, and I'm in touchy situation as far as company dinamics there's a GF position up for grabs, I already went up to against the 30y exp, 15y in company guys who could do no wrong and came out on top (he quit). Now this guy 15y exp, 5 in company. Me 12y exp, not even a year, but more (not trying to brag honestly) more talented in tree work and company operations. So there's allot of muscle flexing to the new comer. But we are technically coworkers at this point in time. And let's face it we are tree workers ego does come into play.
 
Sounds like a tough spot for sure. I'm assuming you guys get along well enough to have some conversations? Does he know about the recent incident? Even if he does, you can always point out what you would have done differently in both the situation that happened and if you were climbing the tree. Then ask for his thoughts on it and how he would do it or if there was a better way. If you can get him thinking about it in a 'not related to me' way, there's a chance a light bulb will go on? See where it goes from there without calling him out or saying he's wrong.
 
I'm pretty much all set with snap cutting longer sections then 4' while climbing. What sucks about snaps cuts is if you "pop" the bypass but there is a thread still holding someone where, on one side or the other, it becomes a shitty situation.
I dont mind in the bucket, but I've learned if I'm nervous doing a snap cut it'll take me longer cause I'll leave too much wood between cuts or something.
Definitely sounds like your boy was in over his head snap cutting huge sections tho.
 
Dark art here.

Potential...time saver, ability to lay them flat and keep them from flipping away from trunk. This is compared to taking the time to make a big notch, proper back cut, then hinge it over and send it with a good rotation away from the spar as it falls.

I prefer snap cuts on bigger fat short wood...most times. The longer,
big wood that I want to flip to land flat usually gets the standard big notch and back cut action.

I do the mini notch/shallow shelf cut away from me. This guides it as it has a flat surface to roll over the edge on.

The back cut always comes in under the front cut. This prevents the potential for an area to be left on the falling chunk that can hold onto the bar and want to take the saw with it.

If I feel any concern about my ability to send it, I put a rope in it. I usually prefer a rope in it when snap cutting big wood.
 
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